Obama Awards Medal of Freedom to a Socialist — Again

It used to be that there was a certain amount of stigma attached to being a Socialist in this country-  but to our first Socialist President it is  resume enhancer.

He awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Tuesday to Dolores Huerta, an 82-year-old labor activist and co-founder of the United Farm Workers union. She’s also a board member of the Democratic Socialists of America.

The Discover the Networks profile on Huerta:

  • Co-founder and First Vice President Emeritus of the United Farm Workers of America, AFL-CIO (“UFW”)
  • Board member of the Democratic Socialists of America
  • Founding board member of the Feminist Majority
  • Board member of Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting
  • Opposes War on Terror
  • “It’s always been a part of U.S. foreign policy to first put a dictator in power and than to get rid of him.”

The Foundry reported:

Huerta is also an honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.

DSA describes itself as “the largest socialist organization in the United States, and the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International.”

Huerta has claimed, “Republicans hate Latinos,” and has spoken fondly of Hugo Chavez’s despotic regime in Venezuela.

The Medal of Freedom is awarded to individuals who have made “especially meritorious contributions to the security or national interests of the United States, to world peace, or to cultural or other significant public or private endeavors.

This isn’t the first time Obama has awarded a Socialist with the Medal of Freedom.

In  August of ’09, he awarded the medal to Sidney Poitier, who was described as a “classic poolside Socialist”, after the actor had publicly recommended that the salaries of CEOs everywhere be capped to $500,000 per year.

And in 2010, Obama named AFL-CIO President Emeritus John Sweeney  a recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Sweeney is an advocate of European-style democratic socialism. He has opened the AFL-CIO to participation by delegates openly linked to the Communist Party, which enthusiastically backed his ascent. The U.S. Communist Party [CPUSA] says it is now ‘in complete accord’ with the AFL-CIO’s program.

Three and a half years into this disastrous Presidency, it’s hard to be shocked by anything he does, anymore.

SEE ALSO:

More on how the important Medal of Freedom ceremony was “upstaged by ignorance and incompetence”:

The  All American Blogger: Smartest President Ever Screws Up Awards Ceremony and Insults An Entire Culture In One Swift Move

While posthumously awarding Jan Karski the Medal of Freedom, he referred to Nazi Concentration Camps located in Poland during World War II as “Polish Death Camps.”

The Poles took offense, and rightly so…

Yeah, he’s definitely got his “cool” back.

UPDATE:

The Right Scoop: Rush Limbaugh: Awarding a professed Marxist the Presidential Medal of Freedom tells us who Obama really is

Linked by Michelle Malkin, thanks!

PREVIOUSLY:

Uncovered Ad Shows Obama Appeared At 1996 Event Hosted By Democratic Socialists of America

Don’t Let the Organized Left’s Charges of “McCarthyism” Deter You – Allen West Is Right

The First Time The Ayers Family’s Mailman Heard of Barack

An Obama Ally Weighs In On America’s Journey To A “Democratic, Economically Just, Egalitarian, Ecological, and Peaceful” Society

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40 Responses to “Obama Awards Medal of Freedom to a Socialist — Again”

  1. TexasMom2012 Says:

    I suggest that we limit the salaries of all the blowhards in Hollywood to 500K… Huh? Poitier? Beullar? Beullar?

    Like

  2. Geo Says:

    I suggest that we limit our office holders to Patriotic Americans. . . . . .
    Oh and I also suggest we rekindle the “House on Unamericans Committee” and the McCarthy Hearings.
    >
    >
    Soon! [Before we lose our Country]

    Like

  3. Logan Says:

    This “not so wise Latina” Huerta, is one of the most strident, anti-American, racist, low IQ types you’ll ever come across. She needs her US citizenship revoked and sent to her beloved Meh-hee-co (along with about 20 million more of her amigos).

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  4. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    Another award rendered meaningless.

    After the Nobel Peace Prize was tarnished, it was to be expected.

    Like

  5. Ed Darrell Says:

    Regardless her political affiliations now, Huerta did great work for civil rights and for the expansion of protection for farm workers and farm products. Great humanitarian actions like hers deserve recognition, don’t you think?

    Like

  6. nicedeb Says:

    As a Socialist, she spent her whole life undermining our capitalist system, and stridently attacking Republicans so no – I don’t think.

    Like

  7. Geo Says:

    Actually, Ed. . . . I totally agree with ND who says no.

    I prefer individuals who are to receive that award {the highest civilian award] be someone of the character of a full fledged patriot, who doesn’t or hasn’t advocated the overthrow of the government and has actually contributed something.

    Now I could present a dozen reasons why Madeline [not so] Bright shouldn’t get the award but, I would understand why dopey libs would want to give her the award. And as far as Dylan, I enjoy his music but, there is no way he should’ve gotten this award either.

    Call me silly though. Just another cheapening of something that once meant something, kind of goes along with the individual who now holds the highest office.

    Like

  8. TaterSalad Says:

    The President, Barack Obama is a fraud. Now, Hawaii is involved in the cover-up and the fraud of this man is going to be exposed. (video-+30minutes):

    Like

  9. Ed Darrell Says:

    I prefer individuals who are to receive that award {the highest civilian award] be someone of the character of a full fledged patriot, who doesn’t or hasn’t advocated the overthrow of the government and has actually contributed something.

    Dolores Huerta qualifies fully — she’s a lifelong patriot, a waver of the U.S. flag, and an organizer for community good wherever she’s been.

    Making good work for thousands of workers, organizing a strike that won basic job rights for tens of thousands of workers, building schools for the poor across California, building good citizens and good communities — there are few greater patriots in that regard than Dolores Huerta.

    Deb: You’re holding my post with the information on the other awardees. Why?

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  10. skh.pcola Says:

    A “patriot” and “good citizen,” in the traditional American liberal sense of the words, is anathema to socialism and its tenets. Thus, she, being one that openly espouses ideals in direct contradiction to the bedrock principles that our nation was founded upon, is not a patriot. Socialism kills…when the people clamoring for the filthy ideology get their way. Ms. Huerta and her ilk are anti-patriots and deserve no admiration from Americans (or anybody else) that values the opportunities that the USA provides. Or provided…Obama and his cabal of Marxist radicals are toppling our once-great nation apace.

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  11. nicedeb Says:

    I’m not holding anything, it may have been dumped accidentally with a bunch of other spam.

    What did you have to say about the other awardees, none of whom I had a beef?

    Like

  12. Ed Darrell Says:

    Repost:

    I’m troubled that you failed to mention the other dozen awardees. You make it sound political, instead of inspirational, by your omission of the great captains of industry, leadership, science and the arts who were honored. From the White House press release:

    President Obama said, “These extraordinary honorees come from different backgrounds and different walks of life, but each of them has made a lasting contribution to the life of our Nation. They’ve challenged us, they’ve inspired us, and they’ve made the world a better place. I look forward to recognizing them with this award.”

    The following individuals will be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom:

    Madeleine Albright
    From 1997 to 2001, under President William J. Clinton, Albright served as the 64th United States Secretary of State, the first woman to hold that position. During her tenure, she worked to enlarge NATO and helped lead the Alliance’s campaign against terror and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, pursued peace in the Middle East and Africa, sought to reduce the dangerous spread of nuclear weapons, and was a champion of democracy, human rights, and good governance across the globe. From 1993 to 1997, she was America’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations. Since leaving office, she founded the Albright Stonebridge Group and Albright Capital Management, returned to teaching at Georgetown University, and authored five books. Albright chairs the National Democratic Institute and is President of the Harry S. Truman Scholarship Foundation.

    John Doar
    Doar was a legendary public servant and leader of federal efforts to protect and enforce civil rights during the 1960s. He served as Assistant Attorney General in charge of the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. In that capacity, he was instrumental during many major civil rights crises, including singlehandedly preventing a riot in Jackson, Mississippi, following the funeral of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evars in 1963. Doar brought notable civil rights cases, including obtaining convictions for the 1964 killings of three civil rights workers in Neshoba County, Mississippi, and leading the effort to enforce the right to vote and implement the Voting Rights Act of 1965. He later served as Special Counsel to the U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary as it investigated the Watergate scandal and considered articles of impeachment against President Nixon. Doar continues to practice law at Doar Rieck Kaley & Mack in New York.

    Bob Dylan
    One of the most influential American musicians of the 20th century, Dylan released his first album in 1962. Known for his rich and poetic lyrics, his work had considerable influence on the civil rights movement of the 1960s and has had significant impact on American culture over the past five decades. He has won 11 Grammys, including a lifetime achievement award. He was named a Commandeur dans l’Ordre des Art et des Lettres and has received a Pulitzer Prize Special Citation. Dylan was awarded the 2009 National Medal of Arts. He has written more than 600 songs, and his songs have been recorded more than 3,000 times by other artists. He continues recording and touring around the world today.

    William Foege
    A physician and epidemiologist, Foege helped lead the successful campaign to eradicate smallpox in the 1970s. He was appointed Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 1977 and, with colleagues, founded the Task Force for Child Survival in 1984. Foege became Executive Director of The Carter Center in 1986 and continues to serve the organization as a Senior Fellow. He helped shape the global health work of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and remains a champion of a wide array of issues, including child survival and development, injury prevention, and preventative medicine. Foege’s leadership has contributed significantly to increased awareness and action on global health issues, and his enthusiasm, energy, and effectiveness in these endeavors have inspired a generation of leaders in public health.

    John Glenn
    Glenn is a former United States Marine Corps pilot, astronaut, and United States Senator. In 1962, he was the third American in space and the first American to orbit the Earth. After retiring from the Marine Corps, Glenn was elected to the U.S. Senate in Ohio in 1974. He was an architect and sponsor of the 1978 Nonproliferation Act and served as Chairman of the Senate Government Affairs committee from 1987 until 1995. In 1998, Glenn became the oldest person to visit space at the age of 77. He retired from the Senate in 1999. Glenn is a recipient of the Congressional Gold Medal and the Congressional Space Medal of Honor.

    Gordon Hirabayashi
    Hirabayashi openly defied the forced relocation and internment of Japanese Americans during World War II. As an undergraduate at the University of Washington, he refused the order to report for evacuation to an internment camp, instead turning himself in to the FBI to assert his belief that these practices were racially discriminatory. Consequently, he was convicted by a U.S. Federal District Court in Seattle of defying the exclusion order and violating curfew. Hirabayashi appealed his conviction all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled against him in 1943. Following World War II and his time in prison, Hirabayashi obtained his doctoral degree in sociology and became a professor. In 1987, his conviction was overturned by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Hirabayashi died on January 2, 2012.

    Dolores Huerta
    Huerta is a civil rights, workers, and women’s advocate. With Cesar Chavez, she co-founded the National Farmworkers Association in 1962, which later became the United Farm Workers of America. Huerta has served as a community activist and a political organizer, and was influential in securing the passage of California’s Agricultural Labor Relations Act of 1975, and disability insurance for farmworkers in California. In 2002, she founded the Dolores Huerta Foundation, an organization dedicated to developing community organizers and national leaders. In 1998, President Clinton awarded her the Eleanor Roosevelt Award for Human Rights.

    Jan Karski
    Karski served as an officer in the Polish Underground during World War II and carried among the first eye-witness accounts of the Holocaust to the world. He worked as a courier, entering the Warsaw ghetto and the Nazi Izbica transit camp, where he saw first-hand the atrocities occurring under Nazi occupation. Karski later traveled to London to meet with the Polish government-in-exile and with British government officials. He subsequently traveled to the United States and met with President Roosevelt. Karski published Story of a Secret State, earned a Ph.D at Georgetown University, and became a professor at Georgetown’s School of Foreign Service. Born in 1914, Karski became a U.S. citizen in 1954 and died in 2000.

    Juliette Gordon Low
    Born in 1860, Low founded the Girl Scouts in 1912. The organization strives to teach girls self-reliance and resourcefulness. It also encourages girls to seek fulfillment in the professional world and to become active citizens in their communities. Since 1912, the Girl Scouts has grown into the largest educational organization for girls and has had over 50 million members. Low died in 1927. This year, the Girl Scouts celebrate their 100th Anniversary, calling 2012 “The Year of the Girl.”

    Toni Morrison
    One of our nation’s most celebrated novelists, Morrison is renowned for works such as Song of Solomon, Jazz, and Beloved, for which she won a Pulitzer Prize in 1988. When she became the first African American woman to win a Nobel Prize in 1993, Morrison’s citation captured her as an author “who in novels characterized by visionary force and poetic import, gives life to an essential aspect of American reality.” She created the Princeton Atelier at Princeton University to convene artists and students. Morrison continues to write today.

    Shimon Peres
    An ardent advocate for Israel’s security and for peace, Shimon Peres was elected the ninth President of Israel in 2007. First elected to the Knesset in 1959, he has served in a variety of positions throughout the Israeli government, including in twelve Cabinets as Foreign Minister, Minister of Defense, and Minister of Transport and Communications. Peres served as Prime Minister from 1984-1986 and 1995-1996. Along with Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and then-PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat, Peres won the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize for his work as Foreign Minister during the Middle East peace talks that led to the Oslo Accords. Through his life and work, he has strengthened the unbreakable bonds between Israel and the United States.

    John Paul Stevens
    Stevens served as an Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1975 to 2010, when he retired as the third longest-serving Justice in the Court’s history. Known for his independent, pragmatic and rigorous approach to judging, Justice Stevens and his work have left a lasting imprint on the law in areas such as civil rights, the First Amendment, the death penalty, administrative law, and the separation of powers. He was nominated to the Supreme Court by President Gerald Ford, and previously served as a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit. Stevens is a veteran of World War II, in which he served as a naval intelligence officer and was awarded the Bronze Star.

    Pat Summitt
    In addition to accomplishing an outstanding career as the all-time winningest leader among all NCAA basketball coaches, Summitt has taken the University of Tennessee to more Final Four appearances than any other coach and has the second best record of NCAA Championships in basketball. She has received numerous awards, including being named Naismith Women’s Collegiate Coach of the Century. Off the court, she has been a spokesperson against Alzheimer’s. The Pat Summitt Foundation will make grants to nonprofits to provide education and awareness, support to patients and families, and research to prevent, cure and ultimately eradicate early onset dementia, Alzheimer’s type.

    Like

  13. nicedeb Says:

    Darrell you are such a pathetic flack. Why you would take up space on my blog bringing up Obama’s other awardees when they had nothing to do with my post? The post was about the controversial awardee. What is even your point?

    Like

  14. Ed Darrell Says:

    I believe you err by omission. You suggest Huerta unworthy, and you imply a less-than-savory agenda for Obama — in context, your complaint wilts. This is a great group of patriots. Clearly, from the list, one can tell Obama’s intent is to honor great Americans.

    So, then, what is your odd kick about Huerta? She’s a great woman, a patriot, an organizer of schools, an inveterate defender of the United States to those who would run our nation down.

    How many kids have you dragged out of poverty lately that you have the honor to tie this woman’s shoes?

    Like

  15. Ed Darrell Says:

    Or, do you find all of the people on the list to be “socialist” and unworthy? We hear a lot of that criticism of Juliette Gordon Low down here — you’re among her critics, too?

    Like

  16. skh.pcola Says:

    A socialist, by any rational use of logic, cannot be “an inveterate defender of the United States.” But keep flogging that dead mule.

    Like

  17. nicedeb Says:

    Excuse me, I err by omission? This is my blog. I decide what is and isn’t newsworthy here, not you. The newsworthy part of the story was that he was honoring a SOCIALIST (and not for the first time) among the other not so objectionable awardees – who don’t interest me in the least.
    That you would call a woman who speaks admiringly of Hugo Chavez a “patriot” tells us all we have to know about you.

    Like

  18. Ed Darrell Says:

    If we were to be pendantic, we’d note that Huerta is not a socialist. She does not advocate government owning and controlling any “means of production” in any industry.

    So, calling her a “socialist” is wrong, by von Hayek’s definitions.

    But you think it sounds nasty, and it certainly flags you as one who either doesn’t understand economics or doesn’t care enough about accuracy to get the labels right, so it acts as a warning to the rest of us, about you and your views.

    Don’t flog dead horses. It’s macabre, and illegal in most jurisdictions.

    Like

  19. skh.pcola Says:

    She self-identifies as a socialist and associates with socialists. She is a member of at least one group dedicated to socialism. I don’t need credentials or high-level education to conclude that she is a socialist. But if you want to jump through flaming hoops to distort a definition, then knock yourself out. Semantics mean nothing to leftist rabble.

    Like

  20. Obama Honors Committed Marxist Dolores Huerta, Spurns Soviet Foe Lech Walesa « Nice Deb Says:

    […] the same week the President awarded the Democratic Socialists of America’s Honorary Chairman, Dolores Huerta… he has shunned a true freedom fighter, Poland’s  Lech […]

    Like

  21. Obama Honors Committed Marxist Dolores Huerta, Spurns Soviet Foe Lech Walesa | FavStocks Says:

    […] the same week the President awarded an Honorary Chair of the Democratic Socialists of America, Dolores Huerta, the… he has shunned a true freedom fighter, Poland’s  Lech […]

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  22. geoff Says:

    If we were to be pendantic, we’d note that Huerta is not a socialist. She does not advocate government owning and controlling any “means of production” in any industry.

    If we wanted to be pedantic and correct, we’d note that socialism includes systems of common ownership as well as government ownership.

    But you think it sounds nasty, and it certainly flags you as one who either doesn’t understand economics or doesn’t care enough about accuracy to get the labels right,

    *Disconnects irony meter to avoid overheating*

    Like

  23. nicedeb Says:

    It’s sad that they can’t be honest about themselves.

    Like

  24. Ed Darrell Says:

    If we wanted to be pedantic and correct, we’d note that socialism includes systems of common ownership as well as government ownership.

    One more way that Dolores Huerta does not qualify as a socialist, but Abraham Lincoln (Gettysburg and Arlington National Cemeteries), U. S. Grant (Yellowstone National Park) and Teddy Roosevelt (Grand Canyon National Monument) do. Good catch, Geoff.

    Like

  25. nicedeb Says:

    What do national parks and cemeteries have to do with the common ownership of the means of production?

    Like

  26. geoff Says:

    One more way that…blah, blah, blah

    Now Mssr. Darrell is apparently baffled by the difference between economic enterprise and his examples. With that sort of acumen he’s sure to be a strong candidate for the President’s cabinet.

    Like

  27. geoff Says:

    One more way that…blah, blah, blah

    You do have a cite for that, don’t you? That a board member of the Democratic Socialists of American does not believe in a fundamental tenet of socialism? If true, that would make their board meetings pretty entertaining.

    Like

  28. nicedeb Says:

    With that sort of acumen he’s sure to be a strong candidate for the President’s cabinet.
    Ed Darrell for Treasury Secretary!

    Like

  29. Ed Darrell Says:

    What do national parks and cemeteries have to do with the common ownership of the means of production?</blockquote?

    Common ownership — a stronger link than anything you've got linking Huerta to advocacy of socialism, including her having honorary membership in a group with "socialist" in its name, that does not advocate socialism.

    You do have a cite for that, don’t you?

    Take a look at the definition of socialism offered at the link I gave. You don’t have a citation for any claim of Huerta advocating socialism, none at all. Huerta and Chavez are most famous for their organizing the nationwide boycott of grapes — an attempt to use collective bargaining, a feature of free enterprise and capitalism, through means of consumer choice, a key tenet of free marketeering.

    Huerta’s no more socialist than you are — probably less so.

    Like

  30. nicedeb Says:

    How is a National Park an example of common ownership?
    And since you don’t seem to grasp various Socialistic principles, why should anyone believe you when you say someone isn’t a Socialist?

    You don’t have a citation for any claim of Huerta advocating socialism,
    What more do you need than Honorary Chair of Democrat Socialists of America?

    Like

  31. Ed Darrell Says:

    How are National Parks an example of common ownership? Perhaps you’re overthinking this: National Parks are owned by the government — which in this case, is the American people (“We the people,” you know).

    Which socialist principle is it you think I don’t grasp, government ownership of the means of production, or government control of the means of production? It seems to me that you assert Huerta to be a socialist, and by implication, Obama; it’s your assertion, so where is your evidence?

    Huerta deals in the private sector, labor contracting with private companies. There is no government ownership, no government control of production.

    The Republican Party isn’t much on the republic anymore, either — are you really surprised that a group with “socialist” in its name isn’t, in fact, socialist?

    Why do you care if Huerta is socialist in the first place? There’s no sin in it. She’s a practicing American patriot. She’s done a lot for workers, for kids, for voting and for education. Is that what really bothers people? No one has cited anything Huerta has ever done that might be a problem. You’re hung up on the word “socialist,” and you weren’t even sure what it means — still don’t seem clear on the concept to me.

    Like

  32. nicedeb Says:

    Perhaps you’re overthinking this: National Parks are owned by the government — which in this case, is the American people (“We the people,” you know).

    No, common ownership has a specific meaning – one of which you’re apparently unaware:

    Common ownership is a principle according to which the assets of an enterprise or other organization are held indivisibly rather than in the names of the individual members or by a
    Thus, rather than being “owners” of the enterprise, its members are held to be trustees of it and its assets for future generations. Common ownership is a way of “neutralising” capital, and vesting control of an enterprise by virtue of participation in it, rather than by the injection of capital.

    Many socialist movements advocate common ownership of the means of production as an eventual goal or outcome of development of the productive forces. Socialists make the distinction between collective ownership (such as corporate/private ownership and state ownership) and common property.[1]

    In political philosophy, common ownership refers to joint or collective ownership by all individuals in society. Common ownership of the means of production is advocated, or asserted, by communism and some forms of socialism. Common ownership differs from collective ownership. The former means property open for access to anyone, and the latter means property owned jointly by agreement.[2] Examples of collective ownership include modern forms of corporate ownership as well as producer cooperatives, which are in contrast to forms of common ownership, such as a public park available to everyone.[3]

    Common ownership of land is an example of customary land ownership in tribal societies which predates and runs simultaneously to the arrangement of colonised alienated land. Tribes and families living on the land have common ownership through tradition.

    That’s what Geoff was talking about – not public lands like national parks.

    Huerta deals in the private sector, labor contracting with private companies. There is no government ownership, no government control of production.
    ….
    Why do you care if Huerta is socialist in the first place? There’s no sin in it. She’s a practicing American patriot.

    LOL. Kinda twisting yourself into knots, there.

    It’s always so awkward when you can’t be honest about what you are.

    are you really surprised that a group with “socialist” in its name isn’t, in fact, socialist?

    Now you’re trying to argue that the DSA isn’t Socialist?

    In an article in DSA’s Democratic Left, Spring 2007, DSA National Political Committee member David Green of Detroit wrote in support of the Employee Free Choice Act – or “card check”.

    What distinguishes socialists from other progressives is the theory of surplus value. According to Marx, the secret of surplus value is that workers are a source of more value than they receive in wages. The capitalist is able to capture surplus value through his ownership of the means of production, his right to purchase labor as a commodity, his control over the production process, and his ownership of the final product. Surplus value is the measure of capital’s exploitation of labor… Our goal as socialists is to abolish private ownership of the means of production.

    Our immediate task is to limit the capitalist class’s prerogatives in the workplace…In the short run we must at least minimize the degree of exploitation of workers by capitalists. We can accomplish this by promoting full employment policies, passing local living wage laws, but most of all by increasing the union movement’s power…

    You’re really trying my patience, Darrell. I can’t know if you’re arguing in good faith but are just wrong about EVERYTHING, or you’re just jerking me around to waste my time.

    When someone tries to tell me that the Democratic Socialists of America aren’t Socialists, I find if hard to take that person seriously.

    You’re on notice.

    Like

  33. Ed Darrell Says:

    I asked: “Why do you care if Huerta is socialist in the first place? There’s no sin in it. She’s a practicing American patriot.”

    The answer?

    LOL. Kinda twisting yourself into knots, there.

    It’s always so awkward when you can’t be honest about what you are.

    I’m trying your patience? I asked a simple question, what is the basis of your argument? You can’t answer? Or you choose not to answer?

    I try your patience by asking such basic questions?

    I’m trying to discuss in good faith, yes. But when I ask a good faith question, you claim it’s bad faith.

    Toulmin’s shorthand: That’s because the arguer doesn’t understand his/her own premises, and hates to have that called to anyone’s attention. Was Toulmin right?

    I’m on notice, I suppose. The message I’m getting is that you can’t tolerate even very polite discussion that requires you to think about the bases of your claims. Is that the notice you intended?

    If it’s such a simple answer that to hear the question tries your patience, could you do the courtesy of giving a straight answer? What’s the harm in Dolores Huerta, a certified American Patriot, joining a group called “socialist?”

    By the way, common ownership is exactly what I was referring to. National Parks are, indeed, common ownership — as are all the federal public lands. Is that so bad, especially compared to the alternatives?

    Like

  34. nicedeb Says:

    You started out saying she was not a Socialist, then you said, so what if she’s a Socialist, what’s wrong with being a Socialist?, then you tried to tell me that the DSA weren’t Socialist. You’re either too confused or too dishonest to have a polite discussion with.

    Like

  35. geoff Says:

    What’s the harm in Dolores Huerta, a certified American Patriot, joining a group called “socialist?”

    And there you have it. I think that question is damning enough that we can leave this discussion as is. BTW, who “certified” Ms. Huerta as an “American Patriot?” The President? QED.

    National Parks are, indeed, common ownership — as are all the federal public lands.

    But they’re not part of our economic system in any significant way.

    Like

  36. Ed Darrell Says:

    But they’re not part of our economic system in any significant way.

    People of Springdale, Utah, West Yellowstone, Montana, Maryville, Tennessee, Whitefish, Montana, and the entire state of Alaska would beg to differ with you. Three million tourists are an economic force all their own.

    Like

  37. geoff Says:

    What a garbled argument. Sort it out and get back to me.

    Just kidding. But for your own sake, try to understand the difference between private, capitalistic enterprise that takes advantage of local attractions, and a government-owned attraction that charges fees to defray costs.

    And then realize that neither have anything to do with socialism.

    Like

  38. Ed Darrell Says:

    I’m not the one garbling the arguments. I did sort it out for you. Quit garbling.

    Not kidding. For your own sake, and for the sake of discussion, please stick with a solid definition, and defend your case instead of claiming I’ve goofed when you don’t understand or can’t reply.

    National Parks, and BLM lands, and National Forests, do not lend to the economy with fees they charge. They are commonly-owned resources, in many cases resources of great productive possibilities. The economic benefits don’t flow from the fees charged by governments, but instead by the users — tourists in the case of the National Parks, who drop huge dollars in private enterprises who provide lodging, food, guides, and other services. You can get into Yellowstone Park cheap: $25 per vehicle. But if you plan to see the place, you’re going to spend some time, with overnight stays. You’ll take meals. You’ll burn gasoline in your own vehicle, or pay a private company to drive you around (or fly over, in the case of the Grand Canyon N.P.). All of this is big business.

    On other public lands outside the National Parks, we get the grazing for a huge portion of our beef and lamb, an enormous portion of our timber, and billions of dollars annually in mineral extraction fees (and that’s still practically giving the minerals away).

    Big business based on government-owned means of production — it’s socialism of a magnificently American sort, as the Sagebrush Rebels keep reminding us (you can ignore them if you choose — they are only radical libertarians, after all, allies with you in many other forms of disbelief in American systems; but ignoring them is not a rebuttal to their accurate claim that government ownership is a form of socialism).

    In contrast, Dolores Huerta works in areas where the land is held privately.

    Your denials don’t change the facts.

    If you’re going to indict Dolores Huerta for socialism, include in that indictment Abraham Lincoln, James Madison, the Rockefellers (including Laurence, who preserved Teton N.P. lands before they were designated for federal preservation), Teddy Roosevelt, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower and other advocates of the public lands.

    Still no justification for trying to slam Dolores Huerta. Why not just agree it’s a bad idea to slam her, and celebrate an award to another American patriot?

    Like

  39. nicedeb Says:

    You have got to be kidding me. Huerta has spent her lifetime as a far-left-wing agitator, and has been arrested more than 20 times for her anti-American rabble rousing. She is no “patriot”.

    From the Discover the Networks linked above:

    In May 1973, Huerta was a sponsor and speaker at a Chicago conference where the Communist Party USA merged the Angela Davis Defense Organization with the Angela Davis Defense Committee to form the National Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression.

    Sometime around 1980, Michael Harrington recruited Huerta into the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee, which in 1983 would merge with the New American Movement to form the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA).

    In 1990, Huerta—along with such prominent leftists as Ramsey Clark and Barbara Ehrenreich—participated in The Committee for Responsive Democracy’s hearings on the “need for significant reform of the two-party political system, as well as the feasibility of forming a new party.”

    In 1993, Huerta was honored with the annual Eugene Debs Award, named after the man who founded the Socialist Party of America.

    In 1995-96, Huerta actively participated in the left’s unsuccessful effort to defeat Proposition 209, the California Civil Rights initiative, which sought to ban affirmative action in the state’s public sector.

    In April 1998, Huerta was a guest speaker at “Making Trouble: Building a Radical Youth Movement”—a Berkeley, California conference where young radicals could meet and form coalitions around such issues as “Environmental Justice,” “Art and Revolution,” “Immigration,” “Third World Organizing,” “Economic Globalization,” “Affirmative Action,” and “Reproductive Rights.” Keynoted by Barbara Ehrenreich, the event also featured such speakers as Tom Hayden, Angela Davis, Cornel West, Barbara Lee, Jello Biafra, and Ron Dellums.

    On November 6, 1999, Huerta spoke at a Los Angeles rally calling for a holiday to mark the birth of Cesar Chavez. The contact person for the event was Evelina Alarcon, an affiliate of both the United Farm Workers and the Communist Party USA.

    Your attempt to turn National parks into an example of Socialism is tedious and pathetic.

    You’ve bored me into banning you.

    Like

  40. geoff Says:

    Big business based on government-owned means of production

    Not really. It’s big business that takes advantage of commonly owned property, which is entirely different. It’s at most a managed tragedy of the commons.

    You’ve bored me into banning you.

    Yeah – he’ll never get it.

    Like


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