Obama keeps claiming that most economists agree that a massive spending bill is needed to help America out of the recession.
Yet, The Patriot Room reports today, that Harvard Economist, Dr. Robert Barro, one of the most influential economists in the world is not at all impressed with The $1,000,000,000,000 (let’s just say infinity at this point) Porkulus/Patronage Bill.
This is probably the worst bill that has been put forward since the 1930s. I don’t know what to say. I mean it’s wasting a tremendous amount of money. It has some simplistic theory that I don’t think will work, so I don’t think the expenditure stuff is going to have the intended effect. I don’t think it will expand the economy. And the tax cutting isn’t really geared toward incentives. It’s not really geared to lowering tax rates; it’s more along the lines of throwing money at people. On both sides I think it’s garbage. So in terms of balance between the two it doesn’t really matter that much.
And The Congressional Budget Office has been saying that the “stimulus” will be harmful over the long haul.
And The Cato Institute published a full-page ad in the New York Times
with the names of 200 economists, including some Nobel laureates and other highly respected scholars, who “do not believe that more government spending is a way to improve economic performance” — contrary to widespread claims that “Economists from across the political spectrum agree” on a massive fiscal stimulus package. Of course, many economists don’t like to sign joint statements, so this is only a fraction of stimulus opponents in the profession.
What more, Cato reported on Feb 3:
People like Robert Reich, who try to back up the claims of President Obama and Vice President Biden that “economic advisers across the political spectrum support Obama’s plan,” have managed to come up with two names of economists who support the stimulus plan and would not be regarded as left of center: Martin Feldstein of Harvard, a former top economic adviser to President Reagan, and Mark Zandi of Moody’s, who was an adviser to John McCain last fall. And now the Washington Post has blown both of those names out of the water. Leaving — by my count — exactly zero libertarian or conservative economists on that much-touted spectrum. As the Post notes this morning:
Democrats lost Feldstein on Thursday when the Harvard professor published a Washington Post op-ed declaring the House bill “an $800 billion mistake” laden with ineffective provisions.
Zandi, it turns out is a registered Democrat.
Many more economists who are against the bill were noted in this CBS News report from Jan. 28 which admits:
You may have heard that respectable economists, including Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz, say stimulus spending should be high or higher. But some news organizations have been less than diligent in telling you that other respectable economists are deeply skeptical of the idea, flatly oppose it or favor competing proposals such as additional tax relief.
News organizations “less than diligent?” You don’t say. Huh. Maybe that’s why Obama, and his acolytes keep repeating the lie.
Another lie I’m getting sick of hearing:
– That there’s no pork – “there are no earmarks in this package”.
Ed Morrissey at Hot Air calls Obama out on this repeated assertion. Heck, even the friggen’ A.P. has called him out on that one.
…the stimulus bill is essentially an Omnibus Earmark Package. It consists entirely of local and state projects that would normally only get funded as earmarks on other appropriations. Even the Associated Press calls shenanigans on this claim:
THE FACTS: There are no “earmarks,” as they are usually defined, inserted by lawmakers in the bill. Still, some of the projects bear the prime characteristics of pork – tailored to benefit specific interests or to have thinly disguised links to local projects.
See Ed Morrissey again, for still more lies from Obama’s Presser.
When Barack Obama explained his economic package last night to the American people in a prime-time press conference, he made two flat-out false statements regarding his opposition. He also added a completely incorrect reading of history, one that turns out to be very instructive about his own economic incompetence.
Obama puts the Republicans in Congress on the defensive when he charges them with wanting to “do nothing”, (which is, of course, a lie). But, there is a very credible school of thought that believes that doing nothing, and letting the recession run its course, is preferable to this suicidal stimulus bill. Another economist who doesn’t agree with Obama, explains.
Another Economist speaks out, via Mark Hemingway at The Corner:
This morning the Heritage Foundation, in conjunction with the Club for Growth, held a conference on the supposed stimulus bill. Here’s what one of the speakers, CATO Economist Arnold Kling, had to say about the Democrat’s economic plans:
“I think about the stimulus as an economist but I feel it as a father. Barack Obama is destroying my daughters future. It is like sitting there watching my house ransacked by a gang of thugs. That’s how I feel, now back to how I think.”
The event was liveblogged on Heritage’s blog, The Foundry. There’s a lot more on the event there.
That’s how I feel, too.
Another economist, (an attractive one) can be seen at Hot Air talking up her alternative idea to the “Stimulus”.
Just seeing Reich’s name makes my blood boil. I heard him testify before the senate committee when he said the jobs would not go to professionals or white construction workers. At that moment he should have been thrown out. Can you imagine the talk among thos idiots when no one but their group is around?
People fail to understand that sometimes recessions are necessary. They are the cure for an over-extended, inflated economy, not the demise. Avoiding recession by flooding the economyy with more cash only ‘kicks the can’ down the road for our kids to deal with.
Do recessions suck? Of course. So do colonoscopies & chemo-therapy, but sometimes they’re necessary.
Our economy needs to contract. It needs to cut waste and bad practices. This is what recessions do. Strong & bad-tasting medicine to be sure, but also very necessary.
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love this post most of all NiceDeb. now THIS is good journalism! if only other journalists would take note of some of these bloggers doing THEIR work… no wait. forget that. to hell with “journalism” as far as truth is concerned… this IS the new journalism! good job NiceDeb! 😉
oh by the by… the Obamanauts have already begun to change the term from “stimulus package” to “economic recovery program” the same way “global warming” turned into “climate change” for the masses consumption…
oh by the by again, there are still a FEW “economists” who actually support TheOne’s “recovery program” and here’s one of them:
“Given these realities, I maintain that the economic recovery plan must include not only a sizeable and sustained economic stimulus, but also far-reaching political and economic reforms in order to restructure the economy along new lines. One without the other is not enough. Both economic stimulus and political-economic restructuring are necessary if US economy is to have any chance of resuming a developmental growth path that is robust, sustainable (in a double sense – economically and environmentally) and favors the interests of the working class and its allies.
If this is the case, the Obama administration and the broad coalition that supports him will almost inevitably have to consider – and they already are – the following measures:
* Public ownership of the financial system and the elimination of the shadow banking system and exotic derivatives.
* Public control of the Federal Reserve Bank.
* Counter-crisis spending of a bigger size and scope to invigorate and sustain a full recovery and meet human needs – something that the New Deal never accomplished.
* Strengthening of union rights in order to rebalance the power between labor and capital in the economic and political arenas.
* Trade agreements that have at their core the protection and advancement of international working class interests.
* Equality in conditions of life for racially minorities and women.
* Democratic public takeover of the energy complex as well as a readiness to consider the takeover of other basic industries whose future is problematic in private hands.
* Turning education, childcare, and healthcare into “no profit” zones.
* Rerouting investment capital from unproductive investment (military, finance and so forth) to productive investment in a green economy and public infrastructure.
* Changing direction of our nation’s foreign policy toward cooperation, disarmament, and diplomacy. We can’t have threats, guns and military occupations on the one hand and butter, democracy, goodwill, and peace on the other.
* Full scale assault on global warming.
* Serious and sustained commitment to assisting the developing countries that are locked in poverty and misery. //mercifully snipped//”
– Sam Webb, Chairman, Communist Party U.S.A.
I know, I know, CEOT, (is it alright if I call you that?!) I was one of the first bloggers to pick up on the tremendous amount of support Obama was getting from commies:
This has been so painful and frustrating to watch.
In fact, last Spring I was rooting for Obama to win the Dem primary because I thought, “no way can a bald faced commie with his issues ever win the Presidency”. But I totally underestimated the gullibility of the American people – and of course the fact that a growing number of them have no problem with communism.
“…the fact that a growing number of them have no problem with communism.”
another post-ipso-facto revelation for the mis-educated masses eh? that’s why this election could be seen as the best thing yet to wake our sleeping nation: the unmasking of communism. without launching into one of my trademark rants against socialism/communsim in America, allow me to just pose this small riddle:
ask this question to any HS, Community College or Univ student of say, the past 30 years:
“Of all ten of the amendments we know as the Bill of Rights, if you had to prioritize them, and get rid of all but one, which single one individual right you absolutely, positively, could NOT survive without?”
…i will tease u with the answer in a bit. think about it. guesses are welcome. HINT: its a very easy and obvious answer, which defines us as free people. liberty itself would not, could not, exist without it, and no, the framers of our constitution did NOT list them in priority. 😉
I think the first amendment, but I suspect you mean the second.
And it passes. Yee-haw.
I’m too depressed to write a post about it. What the hell is there left to say? I mean Specter voted for it, knowing about the massive health care funding provisions which he concedes is problematic, claiming it will get fixed in conference. WTF?
nope. not even close. interestingly, lots of conservatives think that the most important right is in the second. most moonbats think it is UNQUESTIONABLY in the first, since freedom of speech and press are crammed down their throats since kindergarten by the uber-schoolmasters in the NEA…
but no. those are nice to have rights… but no cigar. remember the ass-backwards teaching (indoctrination) that goes on in school – GOVERNMENT gives u these rights – instead of being born with them and given them by God?
ok. i’ll quit teasing. it is such an absolutely fundamental right, that the framers actually put it in almost as an afterthought, like they might’ve overlooked it because it seemed so stupidly obvious.
its buried in the 5th Amedment: “…nor be deprived of life, liberty, or PROPERTY, without due process of law; nor shall private PROPERTY be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
…IF i own no private property, and I OWN the property u have, the clothes u wear, the food u eat, then I OWN u, and u are my slave. since the original Constitution did not apply to slaves – only free men – then when the framers put this particular enumerated right into law – they meant it for themselves AS free men. we actually fought a Civil War over this concept, and only later, in the 14th Amendment, did this seemingly insignificant right suddenly gain such gigantic proportions that it had to be restated to be applied to all and repeated almost verbatim: “…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;”
the right to own private property trumps all other rights in importance – hands down. if i own your property, only i will determine if u live or die, prosper or perish. period. and it is the one single item written into the original Bill of Rights of our Constitution that can only be taken away by “due process of law” – nothing else may be abridged in any way.
communists and their ilk cannot abide our private property rights and will/have been actively seeking to take them away by “due process of law” for at least the past 100 yrs or so. they are now in charge of the entire government… guess which right is going to be at risk?
“We are going to tax and tax, spend and spend, elect and elect.” Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Just between you and me, CEOT, “Ira” is almost certainly an IOWNTHEWORLD sockpuppet.
i figgered that. but i also know folks just like him who are legit morons. moonbats. trolls… and they (seem to) only blog on right-wing blogs. seems they LIKE to be stupid in public. i have one in particular on a couple of my secure military intel blogs who i know. he is for real, and actually posts like Ira. we have a field day in taking turns with the smack-downs… useful idiots indeed!
– they are out there. could be a scary B-movie headline if it weren’t so freakishly true! LOL 😉
I’m not a Conservative, so don’t think I agree with ya’ll on everything. However, the economic stimulus scares me quite a bit. It has the FEEL of one of those sales presentations where they tell you the “good deal” is off if you don’t make a decision right then. That kind of pressure sales usually means ya’ just don’t need what they’re selling. Impulse buying is a great way to destroy your own economic future and opportunities. At the same time people need help here, American PEOPLE NOT COMPANIES. Bush I is famous for coining the “trickle down economics” phrase and ideology that somehow helping people NOT hurting helps people hurting. This seems about on the same lines, and makes no sense.
In regard to your Communist statements, I think you overestimate how many people are Communists. It’s actually an exceedingly small number in the USA. Just try confiscating one of your said HS or College students Ipods and giving it to one of their classmates.
There seems to be quite a precedent in the USA to accuse anyone who disagrees with you as a Communist. McCarthy made it quite popular in the 50’s. How is THAT American? Our entire 200+years of history is built on the idea that people disagree, and can do so without fear of violence etc. The very Bill of Rights mentioned was one such disagreement.
Arbitrarily accosting someone with accusations simply because they disagree with you on politics is a rather low way to end free discussion and open debate. Liberals and Conservatives all over the country seem to be quite taken with this control-freak arguement tactic. The second such accusations fly is a give-away that the person doing the accusing has NO interest in getting along with their fellow Americans.
Most likely, they’d rather see their disagreeable neighbors shot with a firing squad or starved to death as Stalin starved millions of property owning Russian farmers. Anyway, I hope you think about it. Because those kinds of accusations end up the same way, whether they come from Left-Wing Liberals who’d rather the planet was populated exclusively with soft furry cute Pandas, or Right-wing Conservatives who’d be happy “Nuken ’em all!”
And BTW being a Communist is NOT the worst thing you could be… afterall, you could be Arabic, wearing a Burka, and living in a Harem!
Thanks for reading.
I actually don’t accuse all Democrats of being Communists, but based on Obama’s history, associations, past statements, voting record, and what he’s trying to do right now, I don’t think it’s hyperbole to call him a Communist/Socialist/Marxist.
Have you seen Newsweek’s latest cover? We’re All Socialists, Now?
I’m not happy about this country going Socialist, okay? I believe in a safety net for a small minority of people who temporarily need some extra help. More than that enables the bad choices that get people in the situation to begin with. I don’t want the government to take care of me, and I want to continue to enjoy freedoms we’ve always enjoyed.
Here’s a decent explanation of supply side economics:
my dear sweet Amy,
please educate yourself before drawing me into a long and drawn out dissertation of the differences between communism/socialism and capitalism. for starters, plz visit any (or all) of these websites who not only endorsed Sen. Obama for President, they actively worked for it – including on his own staff and in official campaign positions. some are now in his administration. (that’s a big word for the people running this country darling) please let me know which ones u think are “bad” and which ones are “good” so us evil right-wing conservatives will know which ones to spare when we start “nuken ’em all!”:
Communist Party USA, Freedom Road Socialist Organization, Party for Socialism and Liberation, Progressive Labor Party, Ray O. Light Group, Revolutionary Communist Party, Workers World Party, Workers Party, USA, Democratic Socialists of America, Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, Liberty Union Party, Peace and Freedom Party, Socialist Party of Florida, Socialist Party of Massachusetts, Socialist Party of Michigan, Socialist Party of New Jersey, Socialist Party of North Carolina, Socialist Party of Oregon, Socialist Party USA, Solidarity, Young Democratic Socialists, Young People’s Socialist League…
and that’s JUST in the USA… the worldwide list of communist/socialist organizations that were backing Obama (and continue to even more so) would be just too long to list here, but some notable leaders include Kim Jong Il and the Castro brothers among many, many others…
and i haven’t even started on the pro-Jihad groups here and worldwide who also promoted Sen. Obama… will save that for another lesson.
do u really think socialism is just “commie-lite”? how quaint. sigh… (the public education damage may already be too great) 😦
There seems to be quite a precedent in the USA to accuse anyone who disagrees with you as a Communist.
No: all Communists disagree with us, but not all those who disagree with us are Communists. But many of those non-Communist disagreeable people are easily manipulated by Communists.
Our entire 200+years of history is built on the idea that people disagree, and can do so without fear of violence etc.
So calling someone a Communist causes fear of violence?
And BTW being a Communist is NOT the worst thing you could be… afterall, you could be Arabic, wearing a Burka, and living in a Harem!
How very racist. And it underscores NiceDeb’s point: she did not call Obama “communist” to call him names, so it doesn’t matter if it’s the “worst thing you could be.” She said that he enjoys support from various communist organizations, and that his value system seems to have been influenced by communist principles. You can argue the latter point, but don’t try to blow it off by calling it “name-calling.”
So we are living “Atlas Shrugged” runaway congres, senate and president giving hand-outs to the incompetent and greedy (so far banks, insurance companies, investment firms, auto-makers and soon to come state and local governments, etahnol producers, catfish farmers and whoever else (get in line to feed at the federal trough folks)wastefully and uselessly spends tax-payer (read our) dollars on multitudes of inefficient, ineffective programs). Oh boy lets all feel sorry for the poor victims who have been incompetent, greedy or worse and destroyed their companies. And let’s not forget to denigrate the industious who are making a profit. That is just evil and don’t forget it. Boy I hope they vote this stimulus package into law right away so that we can reap the benefits of temporary construction jobs that will allow more folks to buy products and services from overseeas because the US is so over-regulated that we are no longer able to compete in the world market. And don’t forget to give the all the new programs which are necessary for the “pulic good” happy sounding names like the “Emergency Economic Stabilization Act” and the “Auto Industry Financing and Restructuring Act.” or the “American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan.” T. Ah yes and lets keep repeating that the economy is as bad as the Great Depression so that we can terrify the public into supporting the legislation which is “necessary for the public interest”. I consider myself pretty moderate but communism, socialism or whatever you want to call them have one thing in common profits and wealth and creativity become evil and are replaced by some the goal of the public good becomes the goal. When this happens the productive start to disappear or at least not try so hard — leaving everyone poorer. Fashioning policy around the least competent seems so very benevolent but as the saying goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Clean end of the turd, you really don’t listen to what anyone says do you? If you had actually paid attention to what I wrote, you’d realize that you missed the main point… which was directed at you rather than any of Nicedeb’s comments.
You are so busy attacking people for disagreeing with how YOU think the world should be run that you miss the truth of living in a civilized nation.
YOU are two steps from BEING the very thing that you despise.
The people in Russia wanted Communism, they did not want an evil dictator who was bent on utterly destroying anyone who disagreed with him. Well, some may have wanted the evil dictator… the ones like YOU that feel so personally incompetent they can’t even hold a discussion with another person without flinging insults at the person’s intelligence or thoughts.
And you seem so deluded by your smug superiority that you can’t even see clearly enough to realize it. Try learning something for a change… try learning what this country was founded on… respect for fellow Americans and other Human Beings regardless of what they believe… or rather what you assume they believe.
BTW if you are in Military Intelligence as your previous comment seems to indicate, acting like a drill sergeant only discredits your ’cause with civilians. Try being intelligent for a change.
I was not blowing off NiceDeb’s comments. I found her comments interesting, or I’d not have come to this blog for an alternate opinion. I really don’t care what you call President Obama and was not referring to pointing out his odd connections as name-calling.
But many of the readers of this blog seem as infected with an angry-abusive-hatred toward any dissenters/questioners just like most of the left-wing blogs I’ve read.
And considering the violence that goes on in this country, this internet melee of abusive words is a symptom of a major problem in the USA and the world. An intrinsic lack of respect for other people and for the intelligence of even the most disagreeable of individuals. This lack of respecting the intelligence of the common man and woman is endemic to the very Intellectual Elite that so promotes many of the socialist and communist ideas. It amazes me that THIS socialist idea should SO completely infect even the people so violently opposed to Socialism.
That’s what my comment was about.
BTW it’s not racist to detest the idea of being an Arabic woman in say Saudi Arabia where women are still forced to wear Burka like clothing and live in Harems. It seems rather sexist, that you would think THAT preferable for a woman than living in a Communist country that at least treats it’s downtrodden people equally bad?
Thanks for reading,
I had not seen the Newsweek cover, and I too find it disturbing and a bit offensive. I’m an American and have grave doubts about an ideology that has left so many people in Europe angry, disappointed and frustrated.
Nevertheless, there are some good ideas within socialism that might benefit our country without the necessity of buying the whole package.
One example, is that apparently in some European countries families are paid an incentive for one family member (usually the mother) to stay at home and care for any children under the age of five rather than return to work. Many American families would love to be able to spend more time with their children and less time working, and the children doubtlessly benefit from it. We’ve got a system that always seems to give help to people who don’t want to work or abuse the system, but then leaves families with two working parents trying to make it, out in the cold. Something like that though is likely more sustainable on the local State level.
Anyway, I was curious about what you had to say and appreciated many of your comments that I read.
plz take your medications. thank u. kissy kissy. 😉
I’m a stay at home mother, but I would be insulted to take a handout as an incentive to stay home with my kids. There’s really something wrong with this “What can the government to for me – what’s in it for me mentality that is so pervasive these days.
What ever happened to “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country”?
Staying home and raising your kids to be good, honest, informed citizens with character, is something you can do for your country. But how sad and depraved to expect your country to pay you for for doing what’s right.
In the case of single parents, work is unfortunately their best choice, as far as I’m concerned. I resent having to pay for other people’s poor choices. But I’m not against a safety net for people have fallen on hard times. As long as it’s not permanent.
Now now, CEOT. Amy’s trying to have an intelligent discussion.
ummm, nooooo. she attacked me personally:
“//snip// ones like YOU that feel so personally incompetent they can’t even hold a discussion with another person without flinging insults at the person’s intelligence or thoughts. And you seem so deluded by your smug superiority that you can’t even see clearly enough to realize it. Try learning something for a change…//snip//
please see my initial post quoting Sam Webb, Chairman, Communist Party USA. (his actual title)
then when i pointed out the fallacy of her revisionist history and wrong-headed name-calling, i then listed over twenty communist/socialist organizations who are championing Obama’s Marxist ideas and policies. if she has a problem with the term “communist” then i submit that her problem is not with me, but with them calling themselves that?
if yall don’t want me to bother yall anymore with any informative or educational comments, i won’t. just listen to folks like Amy sling their epithets at each other. i’m sure she really means well… like u said, she’s TRYING to have an intelligent discusion. let me know how that works out. 😛
Looking back, I don’t see where you attacked her, first. And I’all do enjoy your comments…(not sure about your handle!).
Want to exchange blogroll links?
sure. but i don’t have a blog. u can contact the G.I. Woodshop, but it is mostly for the non-profit business that i do there. and i’ll still be posting at IOTW.
and my handle is exceptionally appropriate! think about it:
picking up a turd by its clean end is exactly what the main stream media and Leftists in general try to do all the time! however, clean ends of turds exist only in the fantasy world inhabited by unicorns, tooth fairies, pixie sprites, and Conservative Democrats…. the rest of us poor humanity have to live in the real world, and some people can’t even SAY or SPELL my handle!!! (there’s dirty doody on both ends of a turd afterall…)
ergo, my handle doesn’t exist. or does it? 😉
Oh thank you for explaining. Now I don’t have to ask Baby Duh.
But many of the readers of this blog seem as infected with an angry-abusive-hatred toward any dissenters/questioners just like most of the left-wing blogs I’ve read.
Anybody who has spent more than a couple of years in the blogosphere has learned this almost universal rule:
It’s true on both sides of the ideological divide. So now all the regulars at any blog start shooting immediately whenever somebody walks in claiming to be interested “learning about the opposing view,” or “wanting to start a dialogue.”
Your reception here has nothing to do with lack of respect for your intelligence – it has to do with lack of trust in your motivations.
And considering the violence that goes on in this country, this internet melee of abusive words is a symptom of a major problem in the USA and the world.
I think you’re mixing up things that don’t belong together. The issues that motivate abusive language on the internet have nothing to do with 99.99% of the violence in the country. Abusive language on the internet isn’t pretty, but it’s not related to violence in the US in any significant way.
BTW it’s not racist to detest the idea of being an Arabic woman…
To avoid thinking that is racist, you need to: 1) accept the non-PC notion that culture and race and distinct and can be addressed separately, and 2) make it clear that it is the culture, not the race that is at issue.
If you do #1, you’re well on your way to becoming a conservative. Congratulations! But you’ll still need to edit your statement in order to comply with #2.
and my handle is exceptionally appropriate!
I immediately knew what you were getting at, but ND is still right: you don’t hear the phrase much because of the visuals it evokes. Just not a pretty metaphor.
hmmm. good point Geoff. so, in an effort to effuse myself with a more “pretty” charma with warm fuzzy wuzzies, and endear myself to the cloying masses of blogdom… i’m hereby searching for a new “pretty” metaphor name…
i suppose just shortening it to “turd” won’t do? 😀
here’s a thought – maybe u kind folks could help? suggestions welcomed!
I like “clean end…”
It made me laugh.
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the stimulus goes against everything that economists have learned in the past 30 years.
Considering that most Economists are Liberals as is most of the Mainstream “Drive By” Media, this is startling news indeed. Maybe these “Liberals” understand the true meaning of the word “Liberal” and that what it doesn’t mean is “..being Liberal with other people’s money.”
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