Obama And The “Coarsening Of Dialogue”

Is this for real?

President Obama says the angry scenes on televised town halls represents a “coarsening of our political dialogue.”

In an interview to be aired tonight on 60 minutes, Obama indicated that he didn’t think the opposition expressed to his agenda represented the national mood, just the best television.

“In the era of 24-hour cable news cycles, the loudest shrillest voices get the attention,” Obama said, in the interview which was previewed on “Face the Nation.” “What I’m trying to figure out is how can we make sure that civility is interesting.”

Earth to Obama: One good way would be to not tell people they should get in your opponents’ faces and argue with them:

And maybe Obama shouldn’t ridicule the people who oppose his policies:

That reminded me that maybe he shouldn’t go after media  personalities who oppose his agenda:

And he could tell his fellow Democrats in Congress to tone it down a notch:

Senator Reid called anti-ObamaCare protesters “evil mongers”.

Nancy Pelosi and Steni Hoyer call opposition to ObamaCare “unAmerican”.

ObamaCare supporters aren’t exactly known for their civility, either:

After they had already astroturfed and busted heads at several town hall events, Obama’s Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told SEIU supporters to “keep doing what you’re doing.”

A Moveon.org thug bit off the pinkie finger of a an elderly anti-ObamaCare protester at a rally.

See Doug Ross for more on The Party of Hope, Change, and Beatdowns.

Regarding civility in politics, you know what I say to Obama and the rest of the Dems?

You first.

Hat tip: Hot Air

46 thoughts on “Obama And The “Coarsening Of Dialogue”

  1. Truly, the guy in the White House is beyond bizarre. As far as I’m concerned, he can go pound sand. I have never, and I mean, never been as opposed to any president as I am to Obama. He is arrogant, narcissistic and distant, and clearly doesn’t give a rat’s you know what about the American people. My stomach churns every time I hear that guy’s voice. Whenever I see anything of him on television, I have to turn the channel. Literally, I cannot watch. He makes me physically ill. And statements like his, above, make me wonder what planet the guy actually lives on.

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  2. I’m sure Team Obama would point to posts like this as Exhibit A. In this brave new world, quoting what people said and calling them out for hypocrisy is the new form of racism? (See also the Case of the Truther Nutjob Who Was Almost the Green Jobs Czar.)

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  3. Obama has nothing but D I S D A I N for we the people.

    I would add to your fine collection of examples the one where he said in the latest helathcare speech “The time for games is over.” “Games” being our respectful and widespread protests — even when it put our safety on the line. And the White House doing a ‘Bahgdad Bob’ about not knowing there were rallies planned for DC on 9/12.

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  4. I feel sorry for Cate. it’s going to be a long eight years.

    I can only speculate why listening to an articulate, intelligent Black man makes her physically ill. Is it because he’s articulate? Or intelligent? Or is it because…?

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  5. We are to be lectured about coarseness from a guy who gave the bird to one opponent and the shoulder brush off to another ?

    Mr. Obama your are an enabler of a racist anti-Semitic preacher who should get back to writing fiction since that appears to be the only thing your are good at. Otherwise I would suggest you take a hard look in the mirror before lecturing anyone about anything.

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  6. I can only speculate why listening to an articulate, intelligent Black man makes her physically ill. Is it because he’s articulate? Or intelligent? Or is it because…?

    If you simply read what she said, you wouldn’t have to traffic in idle and addlepated speculation. She already specified her reasons. Try reading instead of blurting out your racist tripe.

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  7. “I can only speculate why listening to an articulate, intelligent Black man makes her physically ill. Is it because he’s articulate? Or intelligent? Or is it because…?”

    he’s completely lost without TOTUS.

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  8. Obama is a liar.

    I believe he would not come across as intelligent and articulate if there’s no media blackout of everything unflattering or negative about him.
    People would really see him for what he is – disingenuous and divisive, and dismissive of the people.

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  9. I Like it. Just the perfect sprinkling of sarcasm, to spice the truth; not change, just make it more enjoyable for those of us who are already in full agreement… mmmmmmm.

    As far as comments from Obama: he is the trial lawyer, who gives lawyers (not attornies) a bad name. His use of deception in verbal punctuation and providing a multitude of direct quotes, but always denying that accusations… reminds me of the Monty Python skit “Confuse a Cat”.

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  10. Wow. So many delusional people all in one place. Racists hiding behind the word “socialism” You people have no class and no idea what you’re talking about.

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  11. Dave, you do realize that you do blacks no favors by diluting the meaning of the word racist?

    There really are racists in this country, (found mostly in the Democrat party), but who is going to listen to you and your ilk’s cries of racism (even if valid) when you all use the word so often to smear political opponents?

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  12. GEOFF, CATE and Nice DEB

    I am glad you LOSERS will have 7 years and a few months more of the most intelligent Pres we have had in YEARS…..you LOSERS can´t see the forest for the trees and have NO IDEA where our Pres and his SMART ADMIN is leading us. To bad Obama can only do 2 terms 😦 Wonder if the first lady would be interested in running????

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  13. I am glad you LOSERS will have 7 years and a few months more of the most intelligent Pres we have had in YEARS…

    Intelligent…hmmm. A self-styled “Constitutional Scholar” who is on record kvetching about the Constitution being a flawed document because it limits the powers of government. Genius like that couldn’t light up a 5 watt bulb.

    you LOSERS can´t see the forest for the trees and have NO IDEA where our Pres and his SMART ADMIN is leading us.

    Where is he leading us? Let’s see. Apologizing for America in nations that have no love for us or freedom…check, Pissing on our allies and cozying up dictators…check, Hiring Cabinet Secretaries who can’t seem to pay their taxes, and Adviczars who are slightly to the left of Karl Marx…check, Friends who advocated the overthrow of the U.S. Government and killed people in furtherance of those aims…check, caving in to our enemies, betraying our friends, and getting nothing but weaker in return…check, printing money willy-nilly while at the same time supporting bills that will only reach deeper in the pockets of the average American, when many of the average Americans are suffering under the highest unemployment rate since the term of Dhimmi Cahtur…check, Concluding that the police did something wrong in the same breath in which he admits he knows nothing about the case (Genius…pure genius!)…check.

    I think we know exactly where it is going, Dr. Gregan. The only question for some of us is “Do we let you tip the whole thing over on yourselves, or do we go through the trouble of redeeming the fiity-tooers from the mediocrity they seem hell bent on enslaving themselves to?”

    To bad Obama can only do 2 terms

    Too bad that the last two of his first and only term may find him having frustration after frustration with a hostile Congress.

    Wonder if the first lady would be interested in running????

    So she could truly be proud of her country for the SECOND time in her life? No matter. Haranging Harridans don’t often get selected for important jobs. Look at Shillary Klintoon. Even you thin-skinned messiah keeps bypasing her.

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  14. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    DO BUSH

    The non-answer reply. *yawn*

    How tedious. Especially since critique of Barry the Blessed™ MUSTmean that I am/was a huge Bush supporter. Every lefty feeeeeeeeels it, and therefore it must be true.

    Do you have a fact-based rebuttal squirreled away in that sack of sad you’re dragging behind you, or are you simply immersed in inanities to insulate you from the unfortunate fact that your Emperor has no clothes?

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  15. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere

    I assumed nothing as to your politics however, your repetition of of Fox News talking points lead me to believe that you have nothing good to say about OUR (yours and mine) PRESIDENT. Your assumptions as to where President Obama is leading us Internationally keeps you from seeing the forest for the trees. I travel a LOT internationally and see what a BIG difference our Pres has made out in the wider world and we have a LOT to apologize for…AGREED????

    You seem to be an intelligent person who could see if you let your eyes OPEN to the larger picture instead of the cloudy picture you see when your eyes are half closed.

    Most of what you say above are right wing talking points which have NADA to do with the realities of the world we love in TODAY!!!!

    Anything good to say about our president?

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  16. BTW, in my family it is GROWN UP to apologize and CHILDISH to sit with your arms folded too stubborn to do so!!!! Think about that.

    The key to tolerance is understanding!!!!!

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  17. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:
    September, 19, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Intelligent…hmmm. A self-styled “Constitutional Scholar” who is on record kvetching about the Constitution being a flawed document because it limits the powers of government. Genius like that couldn’t light up a 5 watt bulb.

    FALSE TALKING POINTS …. SHOW SOME PROOF

    Where is he leading us? Let’s see. Apologizing for America in nations that have no love for us or freedom…check,

    APOLOGIZING FOR WHAT…..BE SPECIFIC

    Pissing on our allies and cozying up dictators…check,

    POLAND AND RUSSIA????

    Hiring Cabinet Secretaries who can’t seem to pay their taxes, and Adviczars who are slightly to the left of Karl Marx…check,

    TAX= AGREED …BUT THEN SO DID BUSH, REGAN, CLINTON, AND BUSH ONE HAVE SUCH PROBLEMS AS DO ALL PRESIDENTS….
    KARL MARX SOUNDS VERY BECKISH…YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT MATE.

    Friends who advocated the overthrow of the U.S. Government and killed people in furtherance of those aims…check,

    O NO NOT THE AYRES AND REV WRIGHT THINGS….MOVE ON THE NATION HAS.

    caving in to our enemies, betraying our friends, and getting nothing but weaker in return…check,

    REPEAT, HOWEVER NOT GETTING ANYTHING RIGHT AWAY DOES NOT MEAN WE WON´T IN THE FUTURE…OBAMA IS NOT WORKING FOR THE 24 HOUR NEWS CYCLES…HE, LIKE ALL SMART PEOPLE WORK ON PROBLEMS AND TAKES THE TIME IT TAKES.

    printing money willy-nilly while at the same time supporting bills that will only reach deeper in the pockets of the average American,

    NAME ONE PRESIDENT IN THE PAST 20 YEARS WHO HAS NOT PRINTED MONEY WILLY NILLY……WHICH BILLS ARE YOU REFERRING TO??

    when many of the average Americans are suffering under the highest unemployment rate since the term of Dhimmi Cahtur…check,

    I KNOW YOU ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THIS STARTED WAY BEFORE OBAMA GOT INTO THE OVAL OFFICE…AGREED?????

    Concluding that the police did something wrong in the same breath in which he admits he knows nothing about the case (Genius…pure genius!)…check.

    OMG, DO WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING 100%

    I think we know exactly where it is going, Dr. Gregan.

    NOT IN 9 MONTHS YOU DON´T

    The only question for some of us is “Do we let you tip the whole thing over on yourselves, or do we go through the trouble of redeeming the fiity-tooers from the mediocrity they seem hell bent on enslaving themselves to?”

    THROUGH ELECTIONS???? WHO WOULD DO A BETTER JOB…..PALIN???

    To bad Obama can only do 2 terms
    Too bad that the last two of his first and only term may find him having frustration after frustration with a hostile Congress.

    YOU WON´T HAVE LONG TO WAIT TO SEE EVEN MORE OBAMA SUPPORT IN CONGRESS AFTER THE 2010 ELECTIONS.

    Wonder if the first lady would be interested in running????

    So she could truly be proud of her country for the SECOND time in her life? No matter. Haranging Harridans don’t often get selected for important jobs. Look at Shillary Klintoon. Even you thin-skinned messiah keeps bypasing her.

    YA GOTTA LOVE HER AND THAT PROUD OF MY COUNTRY THING WAS BLOWN WAY OUT OF PROPORTION AND YOU KNOW IT…..CAN YOU FORGIVE HER IS THE QUESTION???

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  18. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:
    September, 19, 2009 at 3:03 pm

    Intelligent…hmmm. A self-styled “Constitutional Scholar” who is on record kvetching about the Constitution being a flawed document because it limits the powers of government. Genius like that couldn’t light up a 5 watt bulb.

    FALSE TALKING POINTS …. SHOW SOME PROOF

    You asked for it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFf7DU9ywQ4
    Pay particular attention at 1:02, 1:23, 2:18, and my favorite part comes at 3:45 when he says “you could craft theoretical justifications for it legally…” which I take as an affirmation of my point about strict constructionism being the only honest method of interpretation, because the “living document” tack takes you down the road of subjective standards employed by unelected jurists who use those standards to discover heretofore unknown and unrecognized law in the body of what were the formerly objective standards set forth in the Constitution. If you want to do something that is not Consititutional, then use the existing available process to change that. Its called “Amendment”, and unlike judicial activism, which is an affront to the republican (small ‘r’) nature of our society, it allows for a majority of the society to agree with you, rather than empowering a minority to impose its will on the rest of us through judicial usurpation of legislative power.

    You should give a listen to this, as well.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_xNyrzB0xI&feature=related

    The flaw in his analysis is that other races don’t complain that America is flawed and because the racist flaws in the Constitution, they have somehow been hindered in their success in this country. Indeed, thousands attempt to get here every day to make their bid at success, and to live as free people. Latinos, asians,etc. If Professor Dimbulb was remotely correct in his analysis of the deep and abiding flaws of the Constitution, this would not be the case. The real tragedy of the “African-American Experience” is not that a black person cannot get ahead. Thurgood Marshall, Clerance Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Condoliza Rice, countless athletes and entertainers are examples that that isn’t true. The problem is that thousands of them allowed themselves to become dependent. Dependent on a federal government that bought their votes and imposed perverse incentives to break up families and make their dependence multi-generational. Dependent upon their “community leaders” like the Wrong Reverends Al Shaptongue and Jesse Jackson, and others, who did not demand that their followers take advantage of the freedom they have to “do” for themselves, but instead to chain them to entitlements, and the crumbs they could disperse while telling them the reason for their current state affairs is because whitey is holding them down.

    Listen, I used to think the way that you do. Law school changed that for me. In fact, I think my watershed moment came in reading some of the footnotes in Bakke v. University of California, when I noticed that there were a significant number of asians admitted to the medical school in that year, and they didn’t need any slots set aside for them, or to have the bar lowered for them. Then I really started listening closely to what the usual suspects were saying about race, and started to look at the effects of their policies.
    ,
    Where is he leading us? Let’s see. Apologizing for America in nations that have no love for us or freedom…check,

    APOLOGIZING FOR WHAT…..BE SPECIFIC

    Another issue that confronts all democracies as they move to the future is how we deal with the past. The United States is still working through some of our own darker periods. Facing the Washington monument that I spoke of is a memorial to Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed those who were enslaved even after Washington led our Revolution. And our country still struggles with the legacy of our past treatment of Native Americans

    This is not an apology to the ‘vicitms’ he is rhetorically wringing his hands about, it is made to an audience in another country, as a means of contrition to persons and nations who have done nothing to earn it. They are not our betters, nor are they in any position to pass judgment on our house; their own houses are in disarray.

    And there is also the little matter of the constant apology to other nations for “American Exceptionalism” which is nothing to apologize for. If he feels the need to say anything to foreigners about American Exceptionalism, it should be to point out to them that the American Exceptionalism he is talking about saved the world from its own madness…twice, and that it helped to set the standard that many of them still struggle to meet, even if they refuse to admit it openly.

    Pissing on our allies and cozying up dictators…check,

    POLAND AND RUSSIA????

    Snubbing the British with thoughless gifts and failing to invite the Queen, an actual WWII vet, to D-Day rememberances, throwing the Isrealis under the bus by getting friendly with Hammas, stabbing the Poles in the back, continuing to meddle in the Honduran’s internal affairs, where the government acted lawfully and no one was killed, but standing by quietly while a corrupt election in Iran led to an uprising in which untold numbers were killed by a brutal and oppressive regime, laughing and joking with his new BFF Hugo Chavez…

    Hiring Cabinet Secretaries who can’t seem to pay their taxes, and Adviczars who are slightly to the left of Karl Marx…check,

    TAX= AGREED …BUT THEN SO DID BUSH, REGAN, CLINTON, AND BUSH ONE HAVE SUCH PROBLEMS AS DO ALL PRESIDENTS….
    No, not agreed. You DO NOT talk about having the most ethical and transparent administration EVAH! and then appoint a tax cheat to head the Department of the Treasury…not if you want to maintain an iota of credibilty in such claims. Other Presidents have had appointments with tax issues, but none with so many appointments with that trouble.

    KARL MARX SOUNDS VERY BECKISH…YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT MATE.

    Just because he happens to be right does not invalidate the message. Van Jones? Vallerie Jarette, Cass Sunstein? Harold Koh? Hello? I could have said “to the left of Marx and Engles, I suppose, but while some insane regimes have charcterized themselves as marxist, few have ever called themselves “Engleist”, so I guess, like others, I unintentionally give him short shrift. And somewhere in Hell, I imagine he is quietly grateful, as his ignominy allows him a place farther away from the hottest flames, where his co-author is writhing in agony.

    Friends who advocated the overthrow of the U.S. Government and killed people in furtherance of those aims…check,

    O NO NOT THE AYRES AND REV WRIGHT THINGS….MOVE ON THE NATION HAS.

    Who are you kidding? The ‘nation’ was never paying attention. People who pall around with people who admit to bombing police stations and government facilities, killing people and wounding others, do not get elected to high office if the ‘nation’ understands who they are, and who their friends are…but somehow, the old media was never very interested in who Barack Obama is…if they were, then we might have learned something about his grades, or his law review article, and more discussion about his memoirs.

    caving in to our enemies, betraying our friends, and getting nothing but weaker in return…check,

    REPEAT, HOWEVER NOT GETTING ANYTHING RIGHT AWAY DOES NOT MEAN WE WON´T IN THE FUTURE…OBAMA IS NOT WORKING FOR THE 24 HOUR NEWS CYCLES…HE, LIKE ALL SMART PEOPLE WORK ON PROBLEMS AND TAKES THE TIME IT TAKES.

    Nice to see that naivity is alive and well. If you are so convinced that there is a big picture here and not simply bumbling ineptitude, then please, connect the dots for us. I can’t think of anyone ever making a concession to the russians without an imediate reciprocity that was paid back at a later date.

    printing money willy-nilly while at the same time supporting bills that will only reach deeper in the pockets of the average American,

    NAME ONE PRESIDENT IN THE PAST 20 YEARS WHO HAS NOT PRINTED MONEY WILLY NILLY……WHICH BILLS ARE YOU REFERRING TO??

    No, I said “printing money”…. http://www.cnbc.com/id/32739769

    when many of the average Americans are suffering under the highest unemployment rate since the term of Dhimmi Cahtur…check,

    I KNOW YOU ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THIS STARTED WAY BEFORE OBAMA GOT INTO THE OVAL OFFICE…AGREED?????

    This is growing tiresome. The way this works is I tell you when I agree, not the other way around. What I know is that President Smartypants blabbed into every microphone about how we HAD to pass the Spendulous Bill RIGHT NOW!!! or the economy as we know it would come to an end, the sun would go dark and puppies and unicorns everywhere would die! And that if we did, unemployment wouldn’t go above, hmmm, I believe 8%? We passed that little bit of generational theft, and lo and behold, the numbers kept climbing…beyond what President Smartypants and Sheriff Joe “I’m the smartest man in the world, just ask me” Biden said it would. In fact, those numbers were elegantly demonstrated by none other than my partner in crime, Geoff, with a famous chart that has been posted here, at Innocent Bystanders (probably the crowning moment of Michael’s blogging career), Glenn Beck broadcast it, and oh yeah, that famous right-wing rag, Newsweek.
    http://michaelscomments.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/unemployment-predictions-for-may/

    Concluding that the police did something wrong in the same breath in which he admits he knows nothing about the case (Genius…pure genius!)…check.

    OMG, DO WE FINALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING 100%

    Except that its the kind of error that a “SMART PRESIDENT” would never make.

    I think we know exactly where it is going, Dr. Gregan.

    NOT IN 9 MONTHS YOU DON´T

    Yes, I do. When I get into a cab, and the Driver starts on to a long straight stretch of road, littered with hazzards, and he’s “fired up and ready to go”, and he has his foot to the floor, I don’t have to be omnisicent to see how it ends.

    The only question for some of us is “Do we let you tip the whole thing over on yourselves, or do we go through the trouble of redeeming the fiity-tooers from the mediocrity they seem hell bent on enslaving themselves to?”

    THROUGH ELECTIONS???? WHO WOULD DO A BETTER JOB…..PALIN???

    Palin, while more experienced than teh smartestest president evar, does not have enough experience for the job, and the fact that she has laid waste to most of the lies about ‘equality’ that the left has being telling women for decades has made her damn near nuclear in any political forum. She would not be able to be effective because the old media and the radical feminists know that just by being the person she is, they cannot continue to peddle their particular brand of manure and close the sale, so they are still campainging against her, almost a year after the election.

    To bad Obama can only do 2 terms
    Too bad that the last two of his first and only term may find him having frustration after frustration with a hostile Congress.

    YOU WON´T HAVE LONG TO WAIT TO SEE EVEN MORE OBAMA SUPPORT IN CONGRESS AFTER THE 2010 ELECTIONS.

    Keep telling yourself that.

    Wonder if the first lady would be interested in running????

    So she could truly be proud of her country for the SECOND time in her life? No matter. Haranging Harridans don’t often get selected for important jobs. Look at Shillary Klintoon. Even you thin-skinned messiah keeps bypasing her.

    YA GOTTA LOVE HER AND THAT PROUD OF MY COUNTRY THING WAS BLOWN WAY OUT OF PROPORTION AND YOU KNOW IT…..CAN YOU FORGIVE HER IS THE QUESTION???

    If anything, it wasn’t examined enough. I have heard her say few other things with as much conviction, and unlike her husband, she doesn’t have the air of a skilled and paracticed liar. I have no intention of forgiving her for it. This country did pretty well by her and her Princeton education, and her statement was shameful and revealing.

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  19. BTW, in my family it is GROWN UP to apologize and CHILDISH to sit with your arms folded too stubborn to do so!!!! Think about that.

    I don’t understand what you are trying to say, but I’m not part of your family, and if you think I owe you an apology for something, you are sorely mistaken.

    The key to tolerance is understanding!!!!!

    Lectures from leftists on “tolerance” aren’t going to be well-recieved in this crowd, especially when leftists take “understanding” to mean “See it my way, or you’re a racist/hater/THE WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!!!11!Eleventy!!”

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  20. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere

    I AGREE FULLY WITH WHAT OBAMA SAID IN 2001 AND 2004 ON THE LINKS YOU SENT BELOW.

    THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS IMPERFECT IS NOTHING NEW (SEE THE 27 AMENDMENTS TO IT)…AND STOP ADDING TO WHAT HE REALLY MEANS IN WHAT HE SAYS…….YOUR UNDERLYING TEXT IS YOUR OPINION OF WHAT OBAMA IS SAYING. GO BACK AND LISTEN AGAIN……YOU SOUND LIKE BECK AND RUSH NOW=PSYCHO AND NOT “PSYCO” TALK!!!!

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  21. THROUGH ELECTIONS???? WHO WOULD DO A BETTER JOB…..PALIN???

    Palin, while more experienced than teh smartestest president evar, does not have enough experience for the job, and the fact that she has laid waste to most of the lies about ‘equality’ that the left has being telling women for decades has made her damn near nuclear in any political forum.

    OMG….YOU REALLY MEAN THAT??? PALIN IS AND WOULD BE NUCLEAR IN ANY POLITICAL FORUM BECAUSE SHE IS TOTALLY IGNORANT “PERIOD” , I HAVE NEVER WITNESSED SUCH AN UNINFORMED POLITICIAN……EVER!!!! SHE GIVES IGNORANT A NEW MEANING. THAT YOU PEOPLE FELL FOR HER ONLY SHOWS HOW LOW RIGHT WING NUTS WILL GO POLITICALLY !!!! LETS HOPE SHE RUNS IN 2012…PLEASE!!!!

    She would not be able to be effective because the old media and the radical feminists know that just by being the person she is,

    (AN IDIOT)

    they cannot continue to peddle their particular brand of manure and close the sale, so they are still campainging against her, almost a year after the election.

    SERIOUSLY , COULD YOU SEE PALIN AS POTUS????

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  22. YOUR UNDERLYING TEXT IS YOUR OPINION OF WHAT OBAMA IS SAYING.

    So far every time we’ve expressed our opinion about what he said, we’ve been right. We’ve been right on health care, cap and trade, foreign policy, and the economy.

    I HAVE NEVER WITNESSED SUCH AN UNINFORMED POLITICIAN……EVER!!!!

    You have a point, there, though not nearly as damning as you make it out to be. Certainly she was picked very late in the process, and didn’t have the 4 years of grooming that Obama enjoyed. So on matters of national governance and foreign policy, she wasn’t prepped properly before joining the campaign.

    So why are conservatives impressed with her? Because of her record managing Alaska, and because her values align more closely with most conservatives & liberatarians than any of the other 3 P/VP candidate’s.

    It’s just that simple: just as we knew that Barack Obama would have the instincts of a social worker in his presidency, we know that Sarah Palin would have the instincts of a conservative hockey mom. You can learn about federal-level issues and governance, but you can’t learn those instincts.

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  23. THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS IMPERFECT IS NOTHING NEW (SEE THE 27 AMENDMENTS TO IT)…

    Now you’re seriously saying that every amendment is a due to a “flaw”?
    The Bill of Rights came about because of the understanding that if the rights of the people were not specifically protected from the encroachment of government, government would inevitably encroach on those rights.

    How ever, if the amendments fix a flaw, then we have a problem. Did the 18th Amendment fix a flaw or did the 21st? And th 27th amendment fixed a flaw? Really? You’re going to say that with a straight face?

    If you were to say that the Amendments—outside of the Bill of Rights, exist because of changes in how America percieved the role of government in their daily lives, I might be inclined to agree with you.

    I would even be inclined to agree that the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were addressing flaws because they went straight to the heart of issues that the Founders themselves wrestled with mightily…indicating that some, if not all, knew that in their treatment of slaves in the original document, they committed a grave injustice with their compromise.

    I AGREE FULLY WITH WHAT OBAMA SAID IN 2001 AND 2004 ON THE LINKS YOU SENT BELOW.

    Unless you are well-versed in the law, I can forgive such stunning ignorance in you. I can’t say the same for the “consititional scholar”, and as his observation of ‘negative liberites’ is rooted in a contempt for the constraints that the Constitution places upon what government can do, it is revealing. I don’t want a President who is frustrated by the constraints that the Constitution places on Governmental power; such a person cannot be a respector of the individual liberties the document was drafted to preserve.

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  24. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:
    September, 20, 2009 at 11:30 am

    THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS IMPERFECT IS NOTHING NEW (SEE THE 27 AMENDMENTS TO IT)…

    Now you’re seriously saying that every amendment is a due to a “flaw”?

    NO, HOWEVER A PERFECT DOCUMENT WOULD NOT HAVE NEEDED AMENDMENTS IN ANY FORM OR KIND….AGREED??????

    The Bill of Rights came about because of the understanding that if the rights of the people were not specifically protected from the encroachment of government, government would inevitably encroach on those rights.

    THANKS FOR AGREEING WITH OBAMA

    How ever, if the amendments fix a flaw, then we have a problem. Did the 18th Amendment fix a flaw or did the 21st? And th 27th amendment fixed a flaw? Really? You’re going to say that with a straight face?

    THE FLAW IS THAT THEY WERE NOT IN THIS “PERFECT CONSTITUTION” TO BEGIN WITH……THE CONSTITUTION WILL NEVER BE PERFECT….GET IT???? YOU CAN´T ADD TO OR AMEND PERFECTION…………..

    If you were to say that the Amendments—outside of the Bill of Rights, exist because of changes in how America percieved the role of government in their daily lives, I might be inclined to agree with you.
    I would even be inclined to agree that the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were addressing flaws because they went straight to the heart of issues that the Founders themselves wrestled with mightily…indicating that some, if not all, knew that in their treatment of slaves in the original document, they committed a grave injustice with their compromise.

    NOW WE SEE THE LIGHT….OBAMA WINS YET AGAIN!!!!
    —————————————————————————

    I AGREE FULLY WITH WHAT OBAMA SAID IN 2001 AND 2004 ON THE LINKS YOU SENT BELOW.

    Unless you are well-versed in the law, I can forgive such stunning ignorance in you. I can’t say the same for the “consititional scholar”, and as his observation of ‘negative liberites’ is rooted in a contempt for the constraints that the Constitution places upon what government can do, it is revealing. I don’t want a President who is frustrated by the constraints that the Constitution places on Governmental power; such a person cannot be a respector of the individual liberties the document was drafted to preserve.

    YOU JUST HAD 8 YEARS OF JUST THAT….WANT TO TALK BUSH—> CHENEY????? WERE THESE 2 NOT OUR PRES AND VICE PRES?

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  25. THE FLAW IS THAT THEY WERE NOT IN THIS “PERFECT CONSTITUTION” TO BEGIN WITH……THE CONSTITUTION WILL NEVER BE PERFECT….GET IT???? YOU CAN´T ADD TO OR AMEND PERFECTION…………..

    This is a stupid line of argument. The amendment process was made long and difficult with the specific intent of guarding the integrity of the Constitution. It has always considered to be far more “perfect” than legislation motivated by the ephemeral desires of misguided “progressives.” You simply can’t compare Amendments to the end-around legislation and reinterpretations of intent that offend conservatives.

    YOU JUST HAD 8 YEARS OF JUST THAT….WANT TO TALK BUSH—> CHENEY????? WERE THESE 2 NOT OUR PRES AND VICE PRES?

    Their encroachments were trivial, absolutely trivial, compared to the current administration.

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  26. geoff

    THE POINT OF THIS ARGUMENT HAS TO DO WITH OBAMA SAYING THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS IM-PERFECT AND IT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE…….WHAT PART OF THAT IS IT THAT YOU DON´T GET????

    DID YOU SAY THIS:

    Their encroachments (BUSH – CHENEY) were trivial, absolutely trivial, compared to the current administration.

    LYING ABOUT THE WARS THAT GOT US INTO THIS FINANCIAL SITUATION AND SPYING ON AMERICANS ON AMERICAN SOIL TO MENTION BUT A FEW LIES AND ENCROACHMENTS….IS NOT TRIVIAL…..WELL MAYBE IN A RIGHT WING NUTS HEAD….BUT NOT REALLY…..

    Like

  27. THE POINT OF THIS ARGUMENT HAS TO DO WITH OBAMA SAYING THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS IM-PERFECT AND IT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE…….WHAT PART OF THAT IS IT THAT YOU DON´T GET????

    C’mon, Gregan, don’t be an idiot – it takes all the fun out of it. You were accused of calling it “flawed” which is very different from “imperfect.” If it is flawed, then point out the flaws. Nothing is perfect, so calling it “imperfect” is a statement with no meaning. Calling it “flawed,” however, is another story.

    And trying to use the Amendments to support Obama’s treatment of the Constitution is ridiculous, as pointed out above. Using that argument just makes it look as though you, and perhaps he, have no understanding of the Constitution at all.

    LYING ABOUT THE WARS THAT GOT US INTO THIS FINANCIAL SITUATION AND SPYING ON AMERICANS ON AMERICAN SOIL

    So you don’t understand the history of the run-up to the war, nor the economic forces that led the recession (Hint: the war efforts weren’t major players). And you also are confused about the FISA surveillance. The density of ignorance in your sentences is impressive.

    Like

  28. Sorry for the lag in the response. I was busy enjoying my freedom to exercise my religion, and then after, enjoying my freedom of association with my family. Now back to the issue at hand.

    I AGREE FULLY WITH WHAT OBAMA SAID IN 2001 AND 2004 ON THE LINKS YOU SENT BELOW.

    “Bully for you!”, as another famous progressive would say. However, it misses the point.

    I said: Intelligent…hmmm. A self-styled “Constitutional Scholar” who is on record kvetching about the Constitution being a flawed document because it limits the powers of government. Genius like that couldn’t light up a 5 watt bulb.

    Your response was:
    FALSE TALKING POINTS …. SHOW SOME PROOF

    I provided the proof. In those clips, Dear Leader is indeed chaffing at the restraints that the Constitution places on Government, because it creates significant challenges to any agenda of the imposition of “social and economic justice” by way of “wealth distribution”. My answer, and the answer of the men who actually wrote the document is “OF COURSE! THAT’S THE POINT!”

    You, sadly, but predictably, decided to walk it back and toss the BUSH/CHENEY chaff into the air.

    I’ll only say this once for your benefit, since I’m assuming you really are new here, and not one of our previous chew toys auditioning under another name: BUSH AND CHENEY are no longer in office, and while the Fresh Prez of Bill Ayers delights in offering them as an excuse for things he is taking a drubbing on and has no idea how to fix, the fact is that he is the one who wanted to sit in the big chair, and after he got his spendulous bill that he HAD to have to save the economy, he truly sat down and made it his own.

    You have blathered on about a “Big Picture”, on that I see you declined to make clearer when invited to do so, but another famous Democrat who held that office had a sign on his desk with a simple four word declaration on it: THE BUCK STOPS HERE. Barack doesn’t get a pass any longer. He owns it, and the efficacy and judgment of Bush is now the purview of our posterity, as they will have greater perspective with which to judge it. If you believe that Bush violated the Constitution…not something I was I debating with you, then this belief is not an excuse to let Obama slide. This is a responsiblity not drawn from my own imagination, as the rights and powers of government that teh smartestest constitutional scholar evar wants to use to “fix” the “flawed document”; it was placed upon us, the Framers’ posterity, by the very author whom you claim to follow.

    You see, something you said the other day about Hamiltonian interpretation of implied powers didn’t ring true to me. I thought about it for awhile, and as I leafed through my dog-eared copy of the Federalist Papers, I discovered why.

    From Hamilton’s own words on the “Necessary and Proper clause” in The Federalist #33:

    “But it may be again asked, Who is to judge of the NECESSITY and PROPRIETY of the laws to be passed for executing the powers of the Union? I answer, first, that this question arises as well and as fully upon the simple grant of those powers as upon the declaratory clause; and I answer, in the second place, that the national government, like every other, must judge, in the first instance, of the proper exercise of its powers, and its constituents in the last. If the federal government should overpass the just bounds of its authority and make a tyrannical use of its powers, the people, whose creature it is, must appeal to the standard they have formed, and take such measures to redress the injury done to the Constitution as the exigency may suggest and prudence justify. The propriety of a law, in a constitutional light, must always be determined by the nature of the powers upon which it is founded. “

    As for the rest of your argument about the Amendments being proof of the Constitution’s flaws as Obama sees them, I give you an ‘A’ for sophistry, and a ‘D’ for critical thinking.

    THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS IMPERFECT IS NOTHING NEW (SEE THE 27 AMENDMENTS TO IT)…

    Now you’re seriously saying that every amendment is a due to a “flaw”?

    NO, HOWEVER A PERFECT DOCUMENT WOULD NOT HAVE NEEDED AMENDMENTS IN ANY FORM OR KIND….AGREED??????

    Honestly, this is as dishonest a technique as one can employ when engaged in debate. I’ll let you know when I agree and when I don’t. However, I would like to thank you for your acknowledgement that the Amendment process is the correct way to make something Constitutional that previously was not. I know what a big concession this is for a leftist, seeing as it requires you to take the chance that many citizens may not agree with you that your pet topic should be Constitutional, and therefore is riskier than removing their voices from the discussion and simply finding a sympathetic judge to find a right or power that did not previously exist. Please, spread the word among your friends.

    The Bill of Rights came about because of the understanding that if the rights of the people were not specifically protected from the encroachment of government, government would inevitably encroach on those rights.

    THANKS FOR AGREEING WITH OBAMA

    Once again, you read the words, but only take away a meaning that accords with your preconceived notions. The Bill of Rights was the result not of a flaw with the document, but because of an understanding that as human beings, we are flawed. Spelling those rights out specifically was intended as a safeguard against the machinations of men of low character, and tyrants, who by accident of design, might find themselves in a position of authority where their ambitions might inspire them to use the trappings and authority to infringe upon those rights.

    How ever, if the amendments fix a flaw, then we have a problem. Did the 18th Amendment fix a flaw or did the 21st? And th 27th amendment fixed a flaw? Really? You’re going to say that with a straight face?

    THE FLAW IS THAT THEY WERE NOT IN THIS “PERFECT CONSTITUTION” TO BEGIN WITH……THE CONSTITUTION WILL NEVER BE PERFECT….GET IT???? YOU CAN´T ADD TO OR AMEND PERFECTION…………..

    Once again, you fail to understand what you hear and read. Article V exists in the Constitution precisely because the Framers, while sometimes prescient, were not ominisicent, and as any lawyer who has ever drafted a contract, they understood that there are always unforseen events and occaisionally, changes affecting the nature of the parties to the contract. This is called “careful planning”, not a “flaw”. If the Amendments to the Constitution were all remedies for “flaws”, as you clumsily argue, then as I point out, you have a conundrum presented in the 18th and 21st Amendments, that being was the Constitution flawed at the passage of the 18th Amendment, or was it flawed at the passage of the 21st? The answer is :It wasn’t.. Both Amendments were the result to changes to the American People, and the ill-effects of a startling per capita alcohol consumption on society, and the later perception of greater responsibility in the subsequent years of relative sobriety, not due to a flaw in the document.

    If you were to say that the Amendments—outside of the Bill of Rights, exist because of changes in how America percieved the role of government in their daily lives, I might be inclined to agree with you.
    I would even be inclined to agree that the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were addressing flaws because they went straight to the heart of issues that the Founders themselves wrestled with mightily…indicating that some, if not all, knew that in their treatment of slaves in the original document, they committed a grave injustice with their compromise.

    NOW WE SEE THE LIGHT….OBAMA WINS YET AGAIN!!!!

    Obama has won nothing but four long years driving the FAIL! bus over the American economy and all of his former freinds and associates who became politically inconvenient to the continued good graces of the electorate. His remarks about the Constitution being flawed are, as I have previously pointed out, rooted in his frustration with the limitations it places on government, which significantly hamstrings his agenda. That is a belief in an ongoing flaw, whereas my concession regarding the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments is that they addressed a serious flaw that the Framers deliberately left in, but that the ratification of these Amendments makes the “flaws” past tense.

    As for your simplistic analysis of my Palin remarks, geoff has already adequately addressed them, and your response is neither original nor substantive.

    Like

  29. LYING ABOUT THE WARS THAT GOT US INTO THIS FINANCIAL SITUATION AND SPYING ON AMERICANS ON AMERICAN SOIL TO MENTION BUT A FEW LIES AND ENCROACHMENTS….IS NOT TRIVIAL…..WELL MAYBE IN A RIGHT WING NUTS HEAD….BUT NOT REALLY…..

    “Lying about wars” is an encroachment on our rights under the Constitution? Really? You’re gonna have to take this one in two steps, Dr. Gregan, because you really have lost me this time. Start by explaining how Bush lied about wars, then follow up by explaining how your proof is a Constitutional encroachment.

    And if you believe the wars caused the current financial trouble, you should readjust your focus. Start with the Community Reinvestment Act, a bill that I read and realized was totally illogical when I was young, dumb, and liberal (but I repeat myself) and working for a bank. Then spend a little time researching the histories of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the significant roles of Bwarney Fwanks, Chris Dodd, and other prominent Democrats who continually resisted calls for increased oversight and legislation by people including that Eeevvvviiiillllll George W. Bush, who could see a problem brewing in the housing market because of the managment practices at those two quasi-governmental agencies. However, because there was mad money to be made for the insiders and their enablers in Congress, the perpetrators from the party of corrupt simply refused to do anything until it could no longer be concealed, at which time, those with the greatest share of blame, and the actual authority of oversight and regulation, promptly pointed the finger at…you guessed it, Bush.

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  30. geoff

    TALK TO Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere ABOUT THE WORD FLAWS OR READ OUR RETORTS…..IMPERFECT IS THE WORD FROM THE PRES AND ME……

    ALL THOSE BILLIONS FOR THE WAR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR NATIONAL BUDGET???? TALK ABOUT PUTTING THE BLINDERS ON……”CLOSED EYES SEE NOTHING”

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  31. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere

    ON MY WAY TO WORK….I´M IN EUROPE AND HAVE BEEN THE WHOLE TIME ON THIS THREAD……

    WILL GET INTO YOUR ANSWERS WHEN TIME ALLOWS…

    HAVE A NICE ONE

    Like

  32. IMPERFECT IS THE WORD FROM THE PRES AND ME……

    As a candidate, Obama said that the Constitution had “deep flaws.” AND that it was “imperfect.” Stop lying.

    ALL THOSE BILLIONS FOR THE WAR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR NATIONAL BUDGET????

    Talk about a strawman. When did I ever say that? I said that they weren’t major players in causing the recession. I never said that the money spent had nothing to do with the national budget.

    If you’re going to start lying about what other people say, then just move along. We don’t need that sort of dishonesty here.

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  33. If you hire a new lawyer, your new lawyer should take care of the process of getting your file from your former lawyer and getting any necessary substitution of counsel filed with the court.
    You can hire any lawyer you want, as long as they’re licensed to practice in the court where your case is pending, but hiring one near the courthouse can save you from having to pay for your lawyer’s travel time.

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  34. Pingback: Ironic Surrealism v3.0 » Hey Obama! “Extremist”? I’ll Give You Extremist!

  35. Pingback: Obama Lectures Washington On Civility At National Prayer Breakfast « Nice Deb

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