9/12 March On Washington

Holy cow, what a crowd, I wish I could be there:

live

live 2

More live pictures, here.

See Freedomworks for continuous coverage throughout the day.

Michelle Malkin has more, here.

Do you think anyone in Washington is paying attention?

UPDATE:

More coverage of today’s events in DC at:

Vodkapundit

Instapundit

Frugal Cafe

MORE:

Michelle Malkin reports The crowd has been estimated at two million.

(She has since issued a correction on that estimate).

STILL MORE:

R.S. McCain reports from tea party central.

Atlas Shrugs: A Failed Presidency…

AoSHQ

Breitbart has a CNN video FAIL . Correspondent decides to cover protest by talking about Joe Wilson’s “outburst”, as protesters chant, “Tell the truth!”, and “Glenn Beck!”

El Marko has his pictures up from  The Conservative Woodstock.

dc teaparty

hell no

Video;Proud to be American :

Video: Glenn Beck, special Saturday 9/12 protest edition:

UPDATE:

This article from USA Today Jan.20, Obama’s inauguration day, explains how the Park Service estimates crowd size:

Estimating the size of a crowd requires aerial photographs, dimensions of the gathering space, and an estimate of the crowd’s density.

If the National Mall is densely packed from Third Street to the Washington Monument, and if the area from the monument to the Lincoln Memorial has an average density, the space could contain 1.5 million people, Barna said. Average density is one person per 5 square feet. A tightly packed crowd has a density of one person per 2.5 square feet, an area slightly larger than this newspaper.

Clark McPhail, a University of Illinois professor and expert in crowd estimation, said it’s “very important” to provide a number, even if only an estimate. “These are events of historical significance,” he said. “A president ought to be able to know how many people turn out for his inauguration.”

Thanks to Nick.

Via The rhetorican, here’s an time lapse ariel video of the crowd:

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75 Responses to “9/12 March On Washington”

  1. Sparky Says:

    People like Reid and Pelosi are wondering why there are so many stinky peasants in the streets. Probably wishing that D.C. police would start cracking some heads. A total disconnect.

  2. Betty Says:

    Beautiful. Too bad they can’t drag those worthless Congresspeoplean senators right out on the street.

  3. Terrible Tsunami Expected for Democrats Today, 9/12: Glenn Beck/Tea Party Protest in Washington, DC, Conservatives Inspired by Joe Wilson, 1 Million Anticipated « Frugal Café Blog Zone Says:

    [...] Smart Girl Politics: Tea Party WorldNetDaily: Tea party protesters march on U.S. Capitol Nice Deb: 9/12 March On Washington 09.12.09 March on [...]

  4. Meg Sano Says:

    Police estimate 1.2 million, CBS says 2.1 million and that was at 12:30!!!! I wish with all I am that I could walk long enough to march with them but I am there in spirit and doing all I can to wake up the government. Republican politicians need to understand this is about THEM too!!!!!

  5. serfer62 Says:

    Yeah. The DC GOP is wondering just how to apologize for these mobsters & racists. McNasty right now is condemning the ruly crowds who just can’t reach across the isla…

  6. hoboduke Says:

    The senators and representatives that stand up to meet their people earn our respect. The senators and congressmen that send staff flunkies to run interference, and hide behind their curtains don’t rate a vote in 2010.

  7. MarkJ Says:

    Jesus, Joseph, Mary, and All the Blessed Saints, if the 2 million figure is anywhere near the mark, then the professional “protest organizers” on the Left must be in shock and are still trying to pick their jaws up off the floor. This is HISTORY.

    I think the biggest message sent to the Obamazoids consists of three words:

    WE’LL.BE.BACK.

  8. Some Guy Says:

    Hee hee hee. The DNC had estimated 2 million, and if that ends up being *beaten*…

  9. March On Washington | Hot Web Trends Says:

    [...] 9/12 March On Washington « Nice Deb6 Responses to “9/12 March On Washington”. Sparky Says: September, 12, 2009 at 10:08 am. People like Reid and Pelosi are wondering why there are so many stinky peasants in the streets. Probably wishing that D.C. police would start … Read more [...]

  10. Joe Wilson Says:

    Joe wilson supporters should not be there

  11. PAM ZABEL Says:

    I JUST WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO WERE ABLE TO GO TO THE TEA PARTIES ESPECIALLY THE WASHINGTON DC TEAPARTY.

    I WOULD LIKED TO HAVE GONE, BUT WAS UNABLE AND AM SO GRATEFUL FOR EVERYONE THAT WENT.

  12. Harry Reid, Says:

    Monday morning the House and Senate (Pelosi and I) will introduce bills to stop this tea party nonsense. We don’t need all these trouble makers milling around D.C. causing problems. You people need to stay home, go to work, and pay your taxes, do you understand me? The only thing we Democrats want from you is your money, not your stupid opinions. Now shut up, pay up, and sit your ass down.

  13. Top Posts « WordPress.com Says:

    [...] 9/12 March On Washington Holy cow, what a crowd, I wish I could be there: [...]

  14. The Right Side of Life » Up to 2 Million Freedom Lovers in DC; White House: “Know nothing” of Protest Says:

    [...] also Nice Deb. And Vodkapundit has lots of pictures, with updates throughout the day (via Memeorandum). And at [...]

  15. jo littin Says:

    I wouldn’t have missed the march on Washington for all the tea in the potomac! I predicted 1-2 million based on grassroots enthusiasm and was not disappointed! Truly an awesome day as moms and pops – the bedrock of the American spirit – stood up shoulder to shoulder to protest the tyrannical actions of our government since Jan 20. It’s been a slow decline since well before that and we all recognize this fact, but the free fall since O’s bait and switch has awoken the sleeping and complacent giant. NO MORE! We get it and we’ve found our voice and feet. Put 9/12/2010 on the calendar and work your butts off between now and then to “flip the house’. Next year 4 miilion!

  16. Nick Says:

    Hi Deb. I saved the link to the Park Services schematic they use for crowd estimates at the Messiah’s inauguration. Thought you might find it useful to counter the useful idiots and network media claims to a smaller crowd than it really was.

    Better capture it. USA Today will probably 404 it once they find out it will prove their pundits wrong.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-19-crowd_N.htm

  17. nicedeb Says:

    Hi Nick. Thanks, that’s helpful, after MSNBC called it “thousands”.

  18. J’s Cafe Nette » A Sea Of Humanity Descends On Washington Says:

    [...] Keep scrolling for tons of pictures and links provided at Nice Deb. [...]

  19. Mal Says:

    Talk about hyperbole! 70 000 tops – quite a big crowd – a reasonable sort of protest. But not 2 000 000. Check with Malkin again – I think she’s retracted.

  20. geoff Says:

    Malkin reported that ABC retracted. According to somebody linked from Malkin, the DC police are estimating 1.2 million, and the Park Service is estimating 1.5 million, but nobody’s providing an official estimate yet.

    I think ABC is going to more embarrassed by its 70K estimate than it was by the misquotation of 2 million.

  21. nicedeb Says:

    Hey, if Mal says it’s 70,000 tops, it’s 70,000 tops. He has special sources in Australia that we aren’t privy to, right Mal?

  22. Reiuxcat Says:

    UK Telegraph say up to 2 million!

  23. Nick Says:

    LOLing at Mal. The ticketed area alone if it is full (and it was) is 240,000 people. That would be without a single soul spilling out onto the streets.

    Another glass of Obamaide Mal? Please pass the Barry Biscuits.

  24. SeniorBuzz Says:

    there is still much work to do before we rest

    we must begin an open dialogue across America

  25. Sparky Says:

    Dear Leader said this about tea parties being held across the country: “The truth of the matter is that there has been, I think, a coarsening of our political dialogue,” Obama told Steve Kroft in an interview taped at the White House on Friday evening.

    In other words: You people need to shut your mouths and take this medicine I’m going to jab down your stupid throats. And don’t forget, you really love me. I’m the closest thing to Jesus Christ.

  26. hoboduke Says:

    This outpouring of our citizens is not a flash in the pan phenomenon. It is building more momentum and more pressure is building! A true leader, understands the mood the country, and provides constructive use of energy and resources. Ignoring this civil and massive outpouring is creating a more potentially explosive demonstration of unrest. A President that ignores demonstrations will not be able to accomplish anything. LBJ was not a bad man, but the demonstrations took a toll on him and his plans.

  27. PuddinHead Says:

    Well, at least Democrats never put Hitler mustaches on Bush or Guiliani. That would make us look hypocritical.

  28. Lairwarrior Says:

    A few years ago we had hundreds of thousand of illegal aliens marching in our streets. Every media you went to had all kinds of coverage. I go and try to find information on the Tea Parties and very little is there. It show how much the media is run by the socialists.

  29. DGA Says:

    I just got back from there after driving all day (Live in Indiana) and I’m here to tell you, the sleeping giant has indeed awaken! We, four of us in our own car, drove there on Friday, and stayed the night some distance from the mall, and there were a lot of people at that hotel for the event. Took the train that morning and when we go to the staging area I was totally blown away by the sheer mass of people, and the flood coming from the train just never stopped all day! We had so many there that the police let us start marching 1.5 hours early because there was no more room for the oncoming masses to stand. By a stroke of luck we ended up maybe 75 feet from the stage on the right side of the capitol lawn, a great place to be. I have witnessed dozens of Indy 500 crowds, often used to be 350k or so, this blew those numbers away by a long way. All day I would look back at the flood of people streaming in still, they just kept coming. I guess I had hoped for 100,000 but that was so far off I couldn’t believe it. One Republican senator, forgotten his name, spoke, and said he had battled the democrats for many years, but he thought that we looked like the cavalry coming to the rescue to him.

    After 3:30 we made our way back to get something to eat and sit down, and then went to see the White house. There was a police presence in front of the front lawn keeping us back 200 clicks or more, so we stood there, signs in hand and waited, and couldn’t believe it as the three Sikorsky helicopters came blasting in, and the third one landed on the front lawn. I waved my sign and yelled at the communist wannabe as he got off the heli and ran for cover. That made my day even better, then got to debate a leftist not far from the WW2 monument to top it off.

    It was certainly an experience I’ll never forget, and it was such a lifting experience, to know you’re not alone in all this, to know you’re not some right wing radical minority, and that the sleeping giant is awake, and very angry!

  30. nicedeb Says:

    Thanks for the report. Like I said, I wish I could have been there. My hubby was in Louisville this weekend, and I had to go to St. Louis with 5 of my kids for some extracurricular activities, there. But I brought my computer, and blogged about the event from my St. Louis hotel room in between activities.

  31. REDD FOXX Says:

    HOMELAND SECURITY SAID IT WAS AROUND 2 MILLION…

    FOX(666) NEWS STILL SAYS “UP TO 60,000 THOUSAND”.

  32. richard Says:

    Early on (11 am) the CNN “news” bus estimated the crowd size at 1.5 million. Later they had downsized it to tens of thousands. Always reliable aren’t they ?
    Most amazing was CNN showing some kook with what was puported to be an AK47 saying that he didn’t want to use it, but he was ready if need be. Looking in the background, probably 100 feet away were several mounted policemen, motorcycle cops and quite a few police cars.
    With the gun laws in DC can you imagine what would have happened to someone who actually displayed an AK in sight of the capitol ?
    If not so maddening, it would have been laughable. But it does show the extent to which big media will go to discredit concerned citizens.

  33. God Bless America… Thousands Upon Thousands of Inspiring, Patriotic Voices and Faces from 9/12 March on Washington, DC (video) « Frugal Café Blog Zone Says:

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  34. markstpete Says:

    you guys are full of patriotism

  35. nicedeb Says:

    Nice try, markstpete. Mobies will not be tolerated.

  36. PuddinHead Says:

    I was there, it was a blast, I had my signs and everything. I think the crowd could have been 75-100k, based on a casual comparison to the 106K people I saw in the Ohio State stadium that night. The best comparison photo I found is here.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109844

    scroll down. It is the million man march which we all know was not near a million. So look at that photo, agree with yourself how many were in the million man march and then divide by 6 or so? Look at the photos and be honest with yourself. Regardless of the number, it was a huge success and the blue dogs got the message. Remember, Al Franken won by about 2 votes, and those people know it would be very different now.

  37. PuddinHead Says:

    People Everywhere Concerned About (the) Country
    PECAN!

  38. MICHAEL SPENCER Says:

    70,000 total. I saw two million, 1.5 million. 70, 000. In a country with 305 million people. Not a math major, but the crowd does not seem % to be very much. All that noise did not produce the feet.

  39. nicedeb Says:

    70,000 total, you seem pretty cock sure of yourself. Your source? ABC? LOL. FAIL.

  40. geoff Says:

    Not a math major, but the crowd does not seem % to be very much.

    Why do libs keep repeating this as if it’s not one of the stupidest things they can say on the subject? No gathering ever has amounted to a significant percentage of the country. That’s never before been a requirement for effective protest, because it’s well known that protesters represent the tip of the iceberg.

    And if they sincerely wanted to use attendance as a measure of political clout, they’d at least add up the attendance from all the events around the country. But they’re not even that honest.

  41. Gregan Says:

    You right nuts can´t even COUNT….bunch of LOSERS!!!!!

  42. Gregan Says:

    Could one of you LOSERS post a link to these high end crowd estimates????? OF COURSE NOT “YOU LIE”….hahahahaha

    70, 000 is a big crowd….why LIE????? LOSERS

  43. Gregan Says:

    Thanks for the link….now that looks about like 70-75,000 people to me..like the crowd Obama drew in Portland during the election 2008 …see link

    http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/19/obama-rally-in-portland-or-draws-70000#comment-593744

    That`s a lot of people, so if the bag people drew that many I am impressed…HOWEVER….when looking into the crowd from other shoots….each person has a lot of room around them = probably less than 70K

  44. Gregan Says:

    By comparison, here are crowd sizes in Washington for previous marches as well as this year’s presidential inauguration:
    Pro Ku Klux Klan march Aug. 8, 1925 35,000
    Martin Luther King’s march Aug. 28, 1963 250,000
    Anti-Vietnam War march Oct. 15, 1969 200,000
    Anti-Vietnam War march Nov. 15, 1969 600,000
    Anti-Vietnam War march April 21, 1971 500,000
    Pro Gay Rights march Oct. 11, 1987 500,000
    Million Man march Oct. 16, 1995 400,000
    Inauguration of Pres. Obama Jan. 21, 2009 1,800,000
    Glenn Beck’s anti-Obama March Sept. 12, 2009 60,000

  45. nicedeb Says:

    Did you see the full panoramic view? Because that is more than 70,000. Period.

    450,000 at least.

  46. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    I wouldn’t sweat it, Deb. His sources aren’t exactly credible, and he seems to equate crowd size with the validity of the message. Put another way, it matters a whole lot more to him than it does to us.

  47. Gregan Says:

    nicedeb

    YES, and I based MHO on that panoramic view as compared to the wide angle view of Obama´s Oregon crowd. If you see 450k that´s cool too :) Beck, Malkin and other idiots saw around 2,000,000 and that´s just “PSYCHO TALK”
    What really surprises me is the fact that they made NO EFFORTS to do some real, believable crowd counts and estimates….that is just pure laziness.

    Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere

    This whole thread is “sweating it” and I would say that the DC FD and other official estimates are more credible than GLEN BECK the unstable, recovering alcoholic or RUSH “The drug addict DRUGSTER”
    The only thing that matters to me is the “truth” and not the “LIES” the right wing NUTS are spreading around about a variety of subjects. They “The right wing NUTS” are LOSERS and they will LOSE again as soon as the next elections are held and THAT IS A GOOD THING!!!!! “THEY LIE” about everything from crowd size to killing grandma……

  48. JackStraw Says:

    Gregan-

    Why are you and the rest of the left so invested in the size of the crowd? It was clearly enormous, clearly hundreds of thousands and not the ridiculous 60,000 estimate that you and the rest of the left keep spewing. Your screaming rant about right wing NUTS!!!11 and their constant lies loses a lot of credibility when you can’t even objectively look at the pictures and admit the truth.

    As to the exact size, let me try and explain this in simple terms. First, there was no registration point. People were free to walk in from many directions. Second, in a multiple hour event such as this, people tend to come and go. At any one time there may have been a few hundred thousand people as is obvious by the picture above shows but this wasn’t a mandatory attendance event so determining an exact number in attendance over many hours is next to impossible. The only thing no serious person argues is that the crowd was huge.

    I suggest you concern yourself more with the obvious lies of your hopey changey administration and their attempt at massive government takeover of your life. Whatever faults politicians on the right have, and there have been many which is why not only you but more importantly we did not support them, none of them promoted ideas as radical and anti-democratic as what is being proposed today. Even if you aren’t concerned the vast majority of the public is, take a look at the polls and the lack of support for Dem candidates. If trends continue as they are, and given that Pelosi, Reid and Obama are leading the agenda there’s every reason to believe they will, the left is in for an epic beat down in 2010.

    In any case, you should stop with the LOSERS and typing in all caps crap. You aren’t winning any arguments and you sound like a 13 year old kid on mommies computer.

  49. nicedeb Says:

    Malkin very briefly reported 2 mil on Saturday based on a disputed ABC report. She retracted the number as soon as it was put into question. It was up for maybe a couple of hours on Sat. before she made a correction.

    That’s what’s called an honest mistake, you imbecile. We all make them. Stop trying to make something out of it that it’s not.

  50. Gregan Says:

    JackStraw = is what I am talking about = living in a DREAM WORLD…anybody who follows Drugster RUSH and DRUNKY Glenn can´t be ALL THERE….can´t wait till 2010 :)

  51. Gregan Says:

    JACKSTRAW SAID:::

    I suggest you concern yourself more with the obvious lies of your hopey changey administration and their attempt at massive government takeover of your life.

    LIST THE LIES WITHOUT LYING OR REPEATING THE LIES OF RUSH AND GLENN

    Whatever faults politicians on the right have, and there have been many which is why not only you but more importantly we did not support them, none of them promoted ideas as radical and anti-democratic as what is being proposed today.

    LIST THE ANTI DEMOCRATIC IDEAS THE OBAMA ADMIN ARE PROPOSING WITHOUT LYING YOURSELF…..YOU CAN NOT DO IT!!!!!!

  52. JackStraw Says:

    Obama lies? Easy.

    The public plan won’t affect your ability to keep your plan and your doctor. Anybody who understands basic economics knows this is a lie.

    Obama said the health plan wouldn’t cover illegal aliens. The only plan in existence at the time, HR 3200, explicitly said that ID checks were not required and numerous amendments were offered in the House to change this. The Dems voted it all of them down.

    Obama said he was all about bipartisanship knowing full well that Republicans had been precluded from participation on everything from the stimulus to the healthcare debate.

    Obama said he had no idea Van Jones was a radical communist when there is ample evidence he knew it for years.

    This could go on for quite some time and frankly you’re not worth my time.

    Mandated government insurance is anti-democratic. Unelected and unvetted czars who have actual policy responsibility are unconstitutional (ask Senators Byrd and Feingold). Funneling money to partisan groups such as ACORN in what is proposed as a stimulus is un-democratic. Taking over the automotive industry and violating decades of contract law to give unions an unearned majority ownership in those companies at the expense of bond holders is un-democratic.

    Again, I could go on but you haven’t done anything to prove you are anything more than a screaming child who gets talking points from DU and Keith Olbermann.

    PS, I think I have heard Rush maybe 3 times for a few minutes each time in my life. Beck, maybe twice. Good try though.

  53. geoff Says:

    Obama also used the “47 million uninsured Americans” mistruth (though McCain did as well).

    He consistently and falsely equates health care and health insurance.

    He has lied about the immediacy of the need to fix health care.

    His administration has never told the truth about the effectiveness of the stimulus package.

    He keeps bringing up the same debunked examples of insurance coverage rescission, and nary a statistic to show that it’s endemic or worthy of replacing the insurance industry.

    He has made wild and unfounded accusations against physicians, insulting the entire profession.

    Dang, is my time up already?

  54. nicedeb Says:

    Wouldn’t you have to be a useful idiot of epic proportions not to notice Obama’s blatant dishonesty by now?

  55. Gregan Says:

    JackStraw Says:
    September, 17, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Obama lies? Easy.

    The public plan won’t affect your ability to keep your plan and your doctor. Anybody who understands basic economics knows this is a lie.

    CAPS SO YOU SEE MY ANSWERS CLEARLY…
    A LIE BECAUSE THERE IS NO BILL YET , HENCE “NO PUBLIC PLAN”
    IF THERE IS TO BE A PUBLIC “PLAN” AS YOU CALL IT IN THE FINISHED BILL IT WILL BE A “CHOICE” OR OPTION…GET IT? WHAT´S WRONG WITH MORE OPTIONS? YOU KEEP THE PLAN YOU HAVE SAYS OUR SMART PRES…OVER AND OVER AGAIN BUT YOU RIGHT NUTS ARE HARD OF HEARING.

    Obama said the health plan wouldn’t cover illegal aliens.

    WERE IS THE LIE ? HR 3200 HAS NEVER BEEN REFERENCED BY OBAMA SO STOP LYING….HR 3200 IS NOT THE FINISHED BILL …. GET IT????

    The only plan in existence at the time, HR 3200, explicitly said that ID checks were not required and numerous amendments were offered in the House to change this. The Dems voted it all of them down.

    HR 3200 IS ONLY A SUGGESTION…NOT A BILL AND OBAMA HAS NOT SIGNED OFF ON IT NOR HAS HE REFERRED TO IT SO STOP LYING!!!!!

    Obama said he was all about bipartisanship knowing full well that Republicans had been precluded from participation on everything from the stimulus to the healthcare debate.

    WHAT ARE YOU TAKING??? BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS VOTED FOR THE STIMULUS TO OCCUR…STOP LYING….AND YOU REPUBLICANS ARE ALL OVER THE HEALTH CARE DEBATE = ALL OF THOSE AMERICAN TOWN HALL MEETINGS…REMEMBER…OBAMA CAN NOT KEEP REPUBS OUT OF THE HEALTHCARE DEBATE…THAT SOUNDS MORE PSYCHO THAN RUSH AND BECK,,,HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Obama said he had no idea Van Jones was a radical communist when there is ample evidence he knew it for years.

    LIAR….PROVE IT!!!! AND WHO CARES….

    This could go on for quite some time and frankly you’re not worth my time.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Mandated government insurance is anti-democratic.

    THEN SO IS MEDICARE , SOCIAL SECURITY, AND MEDICAID…..BOY YOU RIGHT WING NUTS ARE TOO EASY.

    Unelected and unvetted czars who have actual policy responsibility are unconstitutional (ask Senators Byrd and Feingold).

    BUSH STARTED THE CZAR THING MY FRIEND…..HE HAD 35….OBAMA HAS 32…WHERE WAS PSYCHO RUSH AND BECK (YOUR DEAR LEADERS THEN???

    Funneling money to partisan groups such as ACORN in what is proposed as a stimulus is un-democratic.

    WHO DID THIS? ….PROVE IT LIAR!!!!! OBAMA HAD NADA TO DO WITH THAT….MORE LIES!!!!

    Taking over the automotive industry and violating decades of contract law to give unions an unearned majority ownership in those companies at the expense of bond holders is un-democratic.

    NOT TRUE….BUT FOR YOU RIGHT WING NUTS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER TO LET THE AUTO INDUSTRIES AND THE BANKS FAIL ???? SOUNDS KIND OF STUPID SEEING THAT WE ARE ON OUR WAY TO RECOVERY….BECAUSE OF THIS AND THE SMARTNESS OF OUR PRES AND HIS ADMIN :)

    Again, I could go on but you haven’t done anything to prove you are anything more than a screaming child who gets talking points from DU and Keith Olbermann.

    LIAR….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    PS, I think I have heard Rush maybe 3 times for a few minutes each time in my life. Beck, maybe twice. Good try though.

    WOW SO THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE AS STUPID AS THOSE 2 WITHOUT EVEN BEING LEAD BY THOSE 2 LOSERS….WOW!!!!!!

    SIT BACK AND WATCH A SMART PRES AND HIS SMART ADMIN…GET US OUT OF THE DAMN HOLE YOU NUTS PUT US IN…………….THEN VOTE FOR OBAMA 2012 :)

  56. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    [Federally] Mandated government insurance is anti-democraticUnconstitutional.

    Fixed it for you.

  57. Gregan Says:

    BLACKISWHITE:

    Neither Social Security or Medicare would be constitutional if you are a “strict constructionist” ,but if you believed in “implied powers” like Hamilton they would be. Both of these programs rely on the provision in the constitution “to provide for the general welfare” and therein lies the issue. What does this clause mean? “Taxes” came out of this clause.
    Originally SS was ruled unconstitutional, but this changed when Roosevelt threatened “packing the court”. Chief Justice Cardoza and several members who previously ruled SS unconstitutional flipped and ruled it constitutional. Basic result was the court now viewed the general welfare clause much broader than Madison believed and turned to the position of Hamilton “implied powers”.
    There has never been a court challenge to Medicare but it would probably follow much the same course as SS.

  58. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    A LIE BECAUSE THERE IS NO BILL YET
    and
    HR 3200 IS NOT THE FINISHED BILL
    See, this is the problem with lies…pretty soon you have to bring in semantics and before long, a bad memory or the dizzy prevarication does you in.

    HR 3200 is a bill. Bills that are passed in both houses of Congress and go on to be signed by the President become law. You obviously need more instruction in Civics. Since your intellect seems limited, I suggest baby steps…start with a DVD of Schoolhouse Rock first, then try some texts.

    THEN SO IS MEDICARE , SOCIAL SECURITY, AND MEDICAID

    Well, MEDICARE is unconstitutional…the supreme court cases that address that particular issue rely on some very tortured reasoning, the kind that would make even federalists like Madison and Hamilton start spinning in their graves. Social Security and Medicaid are a bit more complicated, because portions of both are overseen by the states, who conincidentally enough, are not prohibited from such endeavors by the Constitution.

    BUSH STARTED THE CZAR THING MY FRIEND…..HE HAD 35….OBAMA HAS 32…WHERE WAS PSYCHO RUSH AND BECK (YOUR DEAR LEADERS THEN???

    Its one thing to be a half-wit, and another to announce it as loudly as possible to the world. If Bush started the Czar debacle, then how do you explain the fact that Nixon had a Czar? As for your number, the video further up the page has little Keefie Overbite counting the Bush Czars at 16, not 32. And as for “where was Beck????”, Beck was no freind of the Bush Administration.

  59. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    Neither Social Security or Medicare would be constitutional if you are a “strict constructionist” ,but if you believed in “implied powers” like Hamilton they would be.
    There is only one way to interpret the Constitution that can actually guarantee its preservation, and that is strict construction. The minute unelected jurists start finding rights and interpretations in penumbras and implications, then the only limitation on what is or is not Constitutional no longer resides in the objective guidelines of a foundational document, but in the subjective whims of five judges and and the creativity them employ in their written decision to justify the result.
    The result you are advocating can be made Constitutional, but the process to achieve that result is Amendment, not Judicial Activism.

    Both of these programs rely on the provision in the constitution “to provide for the general welfare” and therein lies the issue. What does this clause mean? “

    General welfare does not mean coercion of citizen’s property in order to provide individual benefits to others. Hamilton would not have been in favor of a government constantly reaching into the pockets of its people in order to buy votes with entitlements and generally making people dependent on government. Providing for general welfare is just that…general welfare. That means doing what is necessary to keep society functioning for everyone. Social Security and Medicare do not do that.

  60. Gregan Says:

    Blackiswhite

    I MEANT FINISHED BILL READY FOR OUR SMART PRES TO SIGN OF COURSE.

    MY POINT ABOUT CZARS IS THAT YOUR REPUBS SEEM TO HAVE STARTED IT ….BECK WOULD BE AN IDIOT WHOEVER HE WAS A FRIEND OR NO FRIEND OF……JUST PLAIN STUPID IMHO :)

  61. Gregan Says:

    Be back Friday to see reactions….Take care folks.

  62. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    Originally SS was ruled unconstitutional, but this changed when Roosevelt threatened “packing the court”. Chief Justice Cardoza and several members who previously ruled SS unconstitutional flipped and ruled it constitutional.

    That’s Justice Cardozo. He was never the Chief Justice during his time on the Court. That post was held by Charles Evans Hughes during that time period. He was also the first hispanic on the Supreme Court, not the unqualified racist, Sonia Sotomayor (another Obama lie).

    As for the Court “flipping”, and your reliance on the notion of impied powers under the “general welfare” clause as justification for an unprecedented expansion of Federal Power (and enormous loss of privacy, another “right” derived from penumbras), you should read your Supreme Court history. The Court once upheld slavery as an institution as well.
    To pass a bill that mandates individuals and employers to buy something from the government is an affront to everything the Constitution stands for. Government was never meant to have the power to dictate to us; the intent was that we control the government.

    There has never been a court challenge to Medicare but it would probably follow much the same course as SS.

    That isn’t entirely true, but I don’t have access to those citations at the moment. The program as a whole has never been challenged, but certain portions of it have been.

  63. JackStraw Says:

    >>BUSH STARTED THE CZAR THING MY FRIEND…..HE HAD 35….OBAMA HAS 32…WHERE WAS PSYCHO RUSH AND BECK (YOUR DEAR LEADERS THEN???

    I’m curious, do you think typing inanity in caps makes it any less stupid? It doesn’t of course, but I am curious if you know that.

    In any case as has been pointed out to you Bush did not start the czar program. I had less of a problem with previous presidents, Republican and Democrat, using czar because they were set up as advisors with no actual policy responsibility. This is not the case with Obama. Obama has taken what was a pretty benign advisory role and turned it into a role that was designed to only be carried out by people who were elected or who had been vetted by Congress.

    Van Jones, for example, not only participated in writing the disaster that is the Obama stimulus bill but was given billions of dollars to spend on green jobs and initiatives. That is unConstitutional. Period. And Obama is seeking to do similar things with his communications diversity czar, with his energy czar (the execrable Carol Browner) and many others.

    Look, the silly crap about Rush and Beck being the leader of anything other than entertainment and information shows is idiotic. It may play well when you are teh heeing with your lefty friends but it’s meaningless to me. If you can’t argue facts, and seemingly you can’t, then I’m afraid I’m going to have to give you the attention you deserve, none.

  64. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere Says:

    I MEANT FINISHED BILL READY FOR OUR SMART PRES TO SIGN OF COURSE.

    I don’t know what you meant. I do know that you said there was no bill and then said that there was. The point is moot, because whether or not you say so, one only needs to go to the Library of Congress website to look up the text of the bill to read it.

    MY POINT ABOUT CZARS IS THAT YOUR REPUBS SEEM TO HAVE STARTED IT ….BECK WOULD BE AN IDIOT WHOEVER HE WAS A FRIEND OR NO FRIEND OF……JUST PLAIN STUPID IMHO

    And my point is that that wasn’t your point. Your point was spelled out clearly, and it was wrong.

  65. The People’s Proclamation | Jeannie-ology Says:

    [...] “sea of humanity” that converged on Washington DC on September 12th was an affirmation of a new day dawning in [...]

  66. The People’s Proclamation - jd11756’s Diary - RedState Says:

    [...] “sea of humanity” that converged on Washington DC on September 12th was an affirmation of a new day dawning in [...]

  67. Gregan Says:

    BTW, BILL O´REILLY “FIXED NEWS” just said 70,000 people and this is a week after the march…..

  68. Blueman Says:

    i have never seen so much trailer trash and ignorant thinking people in my life as at this so called freedom march on Washington….never knew there were so many of you.

    our new president brings the ignorant out in people big time and that´s a good thing :)

    seeing is believing and i was there all day.

  69. Code Red/People’s Surge Against HealthCare Teaparties In Washington « Nice Deb Says:

    [...] this isn’t as massive a crowd as was seen at the 9/12 March on Washington, or the Code Red Rally on Dec 15. Those events, along with CPAC just a few weeks ago, were as much [...]


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