Here’s another one of those “fear-mongering” , “cobbled together”, “taken out of context” internet videos that make it look like Democrats are using the public option in the health care bill as a stepping stone to a single payer/ socialized health care system:
Of course, Obama says he was never a supporter of a single payer system, soooo….
Here, I’ll save you ObamaCare supporters the time: http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/contact
A Verum Serum Production (blame them), found via AoSHQ
RELATED:
Dems are really jumping the shark, now:
Witch Hunt– Dems Demand Insurance Company Records… Continue Attacks On Private Sector …Update: Proof Dems Want Single Payer System
Democrats on a House committee are seeking detailed financial records from dozens of large insurance companies, officials disclosed Tuesday, part of an investigation into “executive compensation and other business practices” in an industry opposed to President Barack Obama’s plan to overhaul health care.
MORE:
In the Fox News report:
Nick Choate, a spokesman for Stupak, said 52 letters were sent late Monday to the nation’s largest health insurers, those with $2 billion or more in annual premiums. He said letters were not sent to other industry groups, some of which have been airing television advertising in support of Obama’s call for legislation. (Emphasis added)
These Stalinist punitive measures should be aggressively opposed by these 52 companies and the GOP needs to publicly castigate the Democrats for these Chicago-style gangster tactics. I cannot imagine anything more intimidating to a businessman than the fear of congressional oversight into your private enterprise if you decide to oppose invasive legislation.
Nice Deb 
Democrats on a House committee are seeking detailed financial records from dozens of large insurance companies, officials disclosed Tuesday, part of an investigation into “executive compensation and other business practices” in an industry opposed to President Barack Obama’s plan to overhaul health care.
HHHmmmm. More “Shut UP!” I wish I could represent them in resisting the subpeonas.
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Buried at the end of the Fox News article:
The letter from Waxman and Stupak requested the information be provided by early September. While companies are not under legal obligation to comply, the committee could respond to a refusal by voting to subpoena the information at a later date.
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Pingback: So How’s That Swell Single Payer Health Care Working Out In Canada? « Nice Deb
I fail to understand why “single payer” has become such a bogie-man for so many people. We all know that group insurance provides individuals with the least expensive quality medical coverage. The bigger the group, the lower the cost of the same quality care. Single-payer would call for the largest group possible, and there is no evidence that this would mean people couldn’t use the doctor of their choice, or that the government would running the system. These are scare tactics which don’t reflect the upside to the single-payer scenario at all. Of course, insurance company executives hate this idea and will say anything to discredit it because it would mean that their massive salaries and bonuses would come to an end. These people are not care-givers. They’re just high-priced administrators who leech value from the system. People complain about their inadequate medical coverage all the time, yet they go completely ballistic whenever anybody suggests any kind of reform. Their common sense shuts down and they believe any lie or half-truth that’s fed to them as long as it represents no change. Lastly, President Obama has said numerous times that none of the current proposals are patterned after the Canadian or British models. He doesn’t want that, yet the last comment in this blog implies that he does. How on Earth does a single-payer system mean “free health care for all”? Doesn’t the word “payer” register? You think you’re being tricked?
http://johnrj08.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/what-is-malkins-agenda/
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Um? Both the UK and Canada are single payer systems.
“Payer” means the administrator of the health care fund would be the government.
Obama keeps insisting that not only is he not currently a proponent of a single payer health care system, he has never been a proponent of single payer, hello? He’s lying.
I fail to understand why you’re comfortable with your side’s duplicity in selling their health care plan.
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I fail to understand why you’re comfortable with your side’s duplicity in selling their health care plan.
Rampant immaturity coupled with a low IQ and a willingness to be used as rhetorical cannon fodder, perhaps?
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I haven’t seen my “side’s” duplicity anywhere but in the assertions I’ve read on conservative blogs that have an extreme dislike for this president. That’s what is driving all this and you know it. The suggestion that anybody has ever called for “free” health care that would require no payment of premiums, which your earlier comment implied, is scurrilous and false. Furthermore, the people who want a single-payer system aren’t necessarily talking about having the government run it. You and I both know that the government is the only entity that could set something of that magnitude up.
Blackiswhite– your puerile sarcasms have always been pointless as they have no impact on me at all. People who make these kinds of remarks to complete strangers are part of the problem, not the solution.
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>>and there is no evidence that this would mean people couldn’t use the doctor of their choice,
Actually, there is ample evidence. We have a single payer, gov’t run insurance plan. It’s called Medicare. Many doctors refuse to treat Medicare patients because 1) the gov’t pays them under market for their services and 2) the gov’t pays late. My ex’s family used to own a nursing home. Federal law mandated that they have a ratio of Medicare to private pay patients. It was common practice for Medicare to pay up to and even over 1 year after services were rendered. They eventually sold the nursing home because Medicare, a single payer, gov’t run boogie man was bankrupting the place.
Since I have first hand experience with a gov’t run system and you just have a bunch of talking points, you’ll have to pardon me if I trust myself on this one.
>>They’re just high-priced administrators who leech value from the system.
Ah yes, the leeches. Do you know who the third largest employer in the world is? It’s the NHS in the UK, behind only the Indian railway and the Chinese military (curiously, also gov’t run single payer systems). There are approximately 1.4 million people employed by the NHS serving a population of 60 million. There are 300 million Americans. If we assume that the US bureaucracy is at least as *ahem* efficient as the UK that means we will be minting something on the order of 7 million new gov’t drones to make sure we are eating our peas. And guess what? They don’t give a rat’s behind about making a profit so they have zero incentive to be efficient. They will just raise our taxes instead as they do to cover those other awesome gov’t systems that are beyond broke, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, post office, etc.. If you think insurance is expensive now, wait until the government runs it.
>>You think you’re being tricked?
No. But I’m dead certain you are.
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>>I haven’t seen my “side’s” duplicity anywhere but in the assertions I’ve read on conservative blogs that have an extreme dislike for this president.
If we show it to you will you admit you are wrong?
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Damn. I posted a video of Obama saying he was a proponent of single payer in an earlier thread. That’s not my assertion, that’s Obama’s uncut assertion. You can see him asserting that he never said that, here:
Did he just say that the government would pay for the health care in a single payer plan? As in free health care for all? Weird.
Who, pray, do you think would run the single payer heath care system liberals want, if not the government?
You are correct that I intensely dislike Obama. But that’s because I figured out a long time ago that he’s an intensely dishonest, narcissistic, far far far left Chicago style thug politician with a Messiah complex.
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People who make these kinds of remarks to complete strangers are part of the problem, not the solution.
No, people who come to oases of respite away from politicians who are lying about this topic, whose faces are plastered all over every mainstream outlet and repeat the same lies, oblivious to even the most subtle infusions of truth and logic, as if on some kind of holy crusade to reach deep into my pockets and impose yet another tax on businesses are part of the problem, and not the solution.
If you are going to persist “getting in our faces” without even the pretext of seeking a true “dialogue”, then you should be fully prepared to be lambasted when you condscend to preach the false gospel of “HealthCare Reform” to people who live in the real world and actually have taken the risks inherent in starting a business and employing others. We know that the government is reaching into our pockets on this. It is addicted to money it has done nothing to earn. Redistributing it for the benefit of others simply makes its eyes roll back into its head like a heroin addict who just got their fix. We know what you’re selling, slick. We could smell your cart from down the street, and we are not buying.
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Personally, I think that every one should be spamming about this issue, especially targeting the conservative blogs where most of the disinformation is taking root.
That’s about as childish as I have seen out side of the confines of the fever swamps of the KOStards and DU. But please, continue to condescendingly lecture me. Its one of the things lefties do best…well, that and spend other people’s money with more waste and less accountabilty than the private sector and charities.
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I fail to understand why “single payer” has become such a bogie-man for so many people.
That is undoubtedly true.
The bigger the group, the lower the cost of the same quality care.
That is too broad a statement. Costs depend on group demographics (this is why Obamacare is drafting the young and healthy into the plan), and it ignores the fact that insurance under larger groups leads to fewer choices and reduced flexibility.
People complain about their inadequate medical coverage all the time
Well, if you’re going to go anecdotal, I’ll just say that I haven’t complained about it at all. Neither has my brother or my sister. So that’s 3 non-complainers.
But to more seriously address the question: insurance companies do suck. It’s impossible to be 100% confident in your coverage when you walk into a medical establishment, and God forbid somebody make a mistake on a form. But most of those issues could be resolved via a consumer bill of rights rather than opening up an inevitably disastrous competitive government option.
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Furthermore, the people who want a single-payer system aren’t necessarily talking about having the government run it. You and I both know that the government is the only entity that could set something of that magnitude up.
Am I the only one who was confused by this?
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Nope.
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What Obama says very clearly at 1:18 in this Youtube video is that he is NOT “promoting” of a single-payer plan, and he explains why in some depth. He does NOT say that he has never been for a single-payer plan, nor does he say that he doesn’t think or that he never thought a single-payer plan is where we should eventually end up. Your intense dislike of the president seems to have had some impact on your perceptive skills. Whether or not the president has had a change of heart about single-payer is a pointless argument. The suggestion that public officials are never allowed to change their minds is ridiculous, and the notion that we should only support pig-headed politicians who refuse to modify their positions even in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence makes no sense.
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“Actually, there is ample evidence. We have a single payer, gov’t run insurance plan. It’s called Medicare. Many doctors refuse to treat Medicare patients because 1) the gov’t pays them under market for their services and 2) the gov’t pays late. My ex’s family used to own a nursing home. Federal law mandated that they have a ratio of Medicare to private pay patients. It was common practice for Medicare to pay up to and even over 1 year after services were rendered. They eventually sold the nursing home because Medicare, a single payer, gov’t run boogie man was bankrupting the place.”
First of all, Medicare is an inexpensive medical plan that was specifically established for the elderly who are frequently on fixed incomes. The suggestion that this kind of system would apply to the other plans in the reform bills that are being proposed is ludicrous. My mother-in-law, who is 92 and blind, is thrilled with her Medicare and she has a Beverly Hills doctor, whom she frequently sees without any notice. For every “anecdotal” story that you throw out there, there are other stories that say something quite different. So much for your “ample evidence”.
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I personally have always cut Obama some slack on the single-payer question: he clearly stated before the election that while he definitely prefers single-payer, it is impractical to implement given our current system. The problem most of us have is that once the public option is in place, it becomes much more practical to migrate to a single payer system, particularly if that’s where the administration’s preferences lie.
The biggest problems with the health care reform bills are:
1) mandatory participation,
2) failure to adequately address rising health care costs,
3) doesn’t fix existing customer service problems in the private insurance industry,
4) if the insurance industry is truly competitive, then the public option is unnecessary. If it isn’t, then anti-trust suits should be filed. President Obama continually speaks of the insurance industry as a monolith that is overcharging the consumer. He’s either indirectly accusing them of price collusion, or just engaging in more demagoguery.
5) creation of a new bureaucracy and huge insurance entity, which is large enough to inherently influence the medical care and research industries (the ‘Walmart’ effect),
6) implementation of ‘best practices’ guidelines, and
7) no real answer for the costs of caring for the elderly or those with very expensive conditions, other than to limit care.
There are so many less obtrusive measures which could be taken to avoid these issues and improve health care financing and delivery. It’s too bad that an enormous government intrusion into the private sector is the path the President chose.
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John-
if you can watch the following video and not admit that a public option is a step on the way to single payer then you are either hopelessly partisan or hopelessly stupid. These are democrats, architects of the plans being shoved down our throat, flat out admitting that the public option is the first step to single payer and the rest is all a smoke screen.
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My mother-in-law, who is 92 and blind, is thrilled with her Medicare and she has a Beverly Hills doctor, whom she frequently sees without any notice.
How does she know it’s really him (nyuk, nyuk)?
The problem with your “anecdotal” silliness is that the problem of dwindling providers of Medicare services is well known and documented.
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>>First of all, Medicare is an inexpensive medical plan ‘
Inexpensive to whom? Do you have any idea how far into the red Medicare is? Who do you think is going to have to fill that hole?
>>that was specifically established for the elderly who are frequently on fixed incomes.
Who do you think the public plan in the House bill is targeted to, member of Congress? It’s targeted at people who can’t afford private insurance.
>>The suggestion that this kind of system would apply to the other plans in the reform bills that are being proposed is ludicrous.
Yea, it would be ludicrous to assume that the government would model on new public plan on a public plan that already exists and they insist is awesome. Ok, no more assuming, let’s go to the bill
HR 3200
A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in subparagraph (B) and subsection (b)(1), during Y1, Y2, and Y3, the Secretary shall base the payment rates under this section for services and providers described in paragraph (1) on the payment rates for similar services and providers under parts A and B of Medicare
(3) FOR NEW SERVICES- The Secretary shall modify payment rates described in paragraph (2) in order to accommodate payments for services, such as well-child visits, that are not otherwise covered under Medicare.
(4) PRESCRIPTION DRUGS- Payment rates under this section for prescription drugs that are not paid for under part A or part B of Medicare shall be at rates negotiated by the Secretary.
(B) SERVICES DESCRIBED- The services described in this subparagraph are items and professional services, under the public health insurance option by a physician or other health care practitioner who participates in both Medicare and the public health insurance option.
I could go on and on. The entire bill is chock full of factual evidence, the kind you are insisting on, that the most prominent plan being discussed today, HR 3200 does indeed merge the proposed public plan and Medicare. But you knew that because you actually read the bill, right John?
John?
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Your intense dislike of the president seems to have had some impact on your perceptive skills.
Or perhaps your adoration of him has impaired even the most basic of reading comprehension skills, including those that might have allowed you to read the bill sections cited above and prevented you from making some of the unfortunate remarks you have made.
If critical thinking is going to be so difficult for you, we can spare you the effort (I’m sure those three brain cells are already strained to the breaking point with the rote memorization of Dear Leader’s talking points), and simply say, if you don’t get it, then maybe we can agree to disagree, and we don’t have to watch you continue to embarrass yourself.
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He does NOT say that he has never been for a single-payer plan
In the video I posted above, at 50 seconds in, Obama says, “I have not said that I am a single payer supporter”.
He has said that on many occasions. And I don’t cut him any slack for it, Geoff, because it’s clear to me in his earlier speeches to fellow travelers that he was 100% gung ho for single payer. He changed his tune in Jan. ’08 when people started paying more attention.
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A single-payer health insurance plan makes the most sense for a country of this size. It’s the only way to make decent health care affordable and make sure that everybody is covered. If everybody isn’t covered, then the people who are end up paying for them. Going straight from our current system to single-payer would be catastrophic for too many people, and the public option would provide a possible avenue for that kind of change at some time in the future. As geoff mentioned, there are many things that still need to me addressed that we’re not seeing in any of these proposals, but the idea that you would walk away from any real reform because the proposals not perfect makes no sense. There needs to be serious tort reform, which is going to be a real problem given the strength of the lawyers lobby. The pharmaceutical industry needs to be dealt with as well. Making those battles part of this one would guarantee its failure. Mandating upgrades in management systems to ensure more efficiency and less waste does not necessarily have to be in these proposals, either.
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Jackstraw–
You guys are wearing me out here.
The public option is for those who can’t afford insurance. Yes. Absolutely true. But you’re making a huge jump in logic when you suggest that the Medicare template would be applied to the public option if it were to be expanded into a universal, single-payer system. The shift to a single-payer system would no doubt require the same level of debate that we’re going through with the public option plan, which is just a small part of proposals being considered in Congress.
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>>A single-payer health insurance plan makes the most sense for a country of this size. It’s the only way to make decent health care affordable and make sure that everybody is covered. If everybody isn’t covered, then the people who are end up paying for them. Going straight from our current system to single-payer would be catastrophic for too many people, and the public option would provide a possible avenue for that kind of change at some time in the future.
Aaaaaaaand finally, the mask slips (even if it does display a startling lack of logic hiding behind it).
So what you’re saying, John, is that you knew all along that Obama was lying through his teeth about a single payer and that all this kabuki theater we are going through about reform is just that, an illusion. No kidding. The only revelation here is that you have been lying too.
So tell me champ, if single payer is the only system that makes sense for a country of this size, why are Obama, Pelosi, Reid, you, etc., lying about what you want? Why not just come out and say it and try to defend your position? If it makes so much sense, it should be easy.
I’ll tell you why not, because your argument doesn’t make sense and Americans would reject it out of hand. It creates a massive new government infrastructure and power transfer from the private market to government. It would have a disastrous affect on our overall economy and send tax rates through the roof.
Over 80% of Americans have insurance and are happy with what they have. Sure, everybody would like to see reforms along the lines of portability and tort reform. These would have huge impacts on cost as well.
But Americans do not want single payer. You have seen that this summer. And you know it yourself or you wouldn’t have lied about what you knew to be true.
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Well, you could knock me over with a feather. What was I just saying about the inherent dishonesty of lefties?
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John’s left so many nuggets over the threads lately…has he made a non-personal assertion yet that hasn’t been pwned?
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He fails at teh internets.
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He fails at teh internets.
Maybe he should ask Dear Leader’s administration to let Sheriff SloJoe out of the closet they are keeping him locked up in, and have him help. Afterall, Sheriff SloJoe knows about those internet numbers!
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I’m afraid we broke this troll, Deb. Can you get us another one?
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Malky may come back.
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I heard there were some astroturfers on the Glenn Beck thread at AoSHQ.
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Boy, you guys sound like a bunch of escapees from a religious cult. We hear exactly the same words, but you come away with totally different “facts”. Not that it ever has been, but this exchange has become hopelessly unproductive. God willing, in a few months we’ll have health care reform, and you folks can move on to the next thing to whine about. Clearly, nobody could present you with any facts here that would dislodge your cement-like views. I need to keep reminding myself that you are probably the same people who think Sarah Palin was eminently qualified to be President of the United States and that President Obama isn’t an American citizen. Enjoy your little club. I suppose that misery really does love company.
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God willing, in a few months we’ll have health care reform,
Really, I know Dear Leader claims a partnership, but I’m hard pressed to think of a single example in the Bible where God suggested that government was an answer to any problem, real or imagined.
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The public option is for those who can’t afford insurance.
That’s not correct. As usual.
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The club I belong to didn’t think Sarah Palin was running for POTUS. But we did think she was more qualified than the noob who’s in there now.
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By the way, John, you haven’t presented us with facts. You’ve presented us with easily shot down talking points.
And it’s beyond ironic that a follower of the Obamessiah, who asks us to believe his lies, calls US the cult followers.
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And it’s beyond ironic that a follower of the Obamessiah, who asks us to believe his lies, calls US the cult followers.
But not beneath the true believers on this subject. Wasn’t it just last week that we were all UnAmerican shills in the pay of the RNC and big pharma? The more we can see daylight through their talking points, arguments, and brazen lies, the more they will stamp their feet and act like spoiled children, having a tantrum because the Dumb Old American People refuse to be easy marks for this snake oil salesman.
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How on Earth does a single-payer system mean “free health care for all”? Doesn’t the word “payer” register?
And there’s an example of someone being deliberately obtuse.
Or accidentally stupid.
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What Soviet Medicine Teaches Us
http://mises.org/story/3650
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